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cohen pleaded guilty to lying to congress and lying to a bank. so trump is not making that part up. but it's important to remember why he committed those crimes and who he did them for. he did it to protect donald trump. cohen lied to congress about business deals trump pursued in russia while he was running for president because trump wanted him to conceal those business deals so his russia baggage wouldn't look so obvious. and cohen lied to a bank to take out a home equity line of credit to pay to silence a woman alleging a sexual relationship with donald trump. namely stormy daniels. trump weirdly keeps leaving out those details when he calls his former personal attorney and fixer a criminal. in clear violation, by the way, of a gag order. tomorrow there will be another chance to hold donald trump accountable in an unprecedented case with farther reaching implications, not just for him but for our democracy. the u.s. supreme court will hear arguments in donald trump versus the united states about whether he can claim sweeping presidential immu
cohen pleaded guilty to lying to congress and lying to a bank. so trump is not making that part up. but it's important to remember why he committed those crimes and who he did them for. he did it to protect donald trump. cohen lied to congress about business deals trump pursued in russia while he was running for president because trump wanted him to conceal those business deals so his russia baggage wouldn't look so obvious. and cohen lied to a bank to take out a home equity line of credit to...
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it's not them blaming cohen. they're saying even if it did happened, if he did it, that's not an election law violation. now we heard this argument before, which is why we try to go to the source around here. because long before this week's opening arguments, attorney tacopina hammered this same attack on the election law in our interview. and while we had a back and forth, and i'll show you some of it, legally, this could potentially work. the d.a. is saying the money was under the table campaign spending. then trump lawyer tacopina and his lawyers today have basically been arguing if trump would pay that money irrespective of the campaign, if he paid other ndas or the "enquirer" did this other times, this this campaign violation could evaporate. >> if the spending were the fulfillment of a commitment or the expenditure, would exist irrespective of the campaign, it's not a campaign law violation. end of story. >> that is their third defense and how they want to end the story. and a jury might see it that way. an
it's not them blaming cohen. they're saying even if it did happened, if he did it, that's not an election law violation. now we heard this argument before, which is why we try to go to the source around here. because long before this week's opening arguments, attorney tacopina hammered this same attack on the election law in our interview. and while we had a back and forth, and i'll show you some of it, legally, this could potentially work. the d.a. is saying the money was under the table...
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some will have a lot of baggage like michael cohen. you look for, what are the tent poles of hard evidence? that paralegal is going to take the stand and talk about phone records. that's been alluded to about certain key times. you build a time line of when things happened. it can be so devastating, both in terms of just what happened when, because you -- those records don't lie. you can really place certain things in chronological order. you can obviously show that somebody's implicated. if you notice at the outset of david pecker's testimony, he was asked about his telephone numbers. they want to link up to the records they have. on october 26, just before the election, the prosecutor referenced in his opening two telephone calls between michael cohen and donald trump. right after that, michael cohen creates essential consulting, the vehicle used to pay stormy daniels. there will be a lot of pieces like that. then there are witnesses like hope hicks, where you think -- we think we know the whole story. that is somebody, like david pe
some will have a lot of baggage like michael cohen. you look for, what are the tent poles of hard evidence? that paralegal is going to take the stand and talk about phone records. that's been alluded to about certain key times. you build a time line of when things happened. it can be so devastating, both in terms of just what happened when, because you -- those records don't lie. you can really place certain things in chronological order. you can obviously show that somebody's implicated. if...
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and yesterday he was again on the attack about michael cohen. i suspect we'll see another mix from the d.a.'s office as well. >> and so depending on what they do on his claim of total immunity, they could delay further the january 6 trial by sending it back to the district court, the appeals court here. and stretch that out. and then they could do any number of things, but if they, you know, end up deciding in june before the end of the term that he has total immunity, all these cases go away. >> and i can't see them deciding that based on the law. so checks and balances which everyone learns about in civics means that the president is not able to do whatever he wants, that he has to be accountable including to prosecutors. trump has famously said that he could shoot someone on fifth avenue. he made it as a political statement, but now also trying to make that legal doctrine that he could do anything, not only avoid political consequences but avoid prosecution. and i think that even the most conservative justices are unlikely to share that view.
and yesterday he was again on the attack about michael cohen. i suspect we'll see another mix from the d.a.'s office as well. >> and so depending on what they do on his claim of total immunity, they could delay further the january 6 trial by sending it back to the district court, the appeals court here. and stretch that out. and then they could do any number of things, but if they, you know, end up deciding in june before the end of the term that he has total immunity, all these cases go...
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there was points, michael cohen was the point person in this, but there was -- pecker was describing phone calls where michael cohen would say, you know, put out a story on ben carson and he would send over, you know, some information, and david pecker said they would quote, unquote embellish it at the magazine and run a story but it was story after story after story on ben carson, on ted cruz and this relationship, you know, was mutually beneficial at a point early in their relationship, you know, in the apprentice days, but this just became -- it was clear sitting there from the way david pecker was telling it, they were trying to influence the election at this point. and every time somebody was trending in the polls, one of donald trump's opponents, they would turn up the volume on the negative stories at the "national enquirer,". >> so it is probably not true there were aliens from another dimension living among us when the "national enquirer" was publishing that kind of stuff too. it gives you the level that they were talking about and the things that they were creating. >> and
there was points, michael cohen was the point person in this, but there was -- pecker was describing phone calls where michael cohen would say, you know, put out a story on ben carson and he would send over, you know, some information, and david pecker said they would quote, unquote embellish it at the magazine and run a story but it was story after story after story on ben carson, on ted cruz and this relationship, you know, was mutually beneficial at a point early in their relationship, you...
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. >> michael cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no credibility whatsoever. he was a lawyer, and you rely on your lawyers, but michael cohen was a convicted liar. he was a lawyer for many people,
. >> michael cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no credibility whatsoever. he was a lawyer, and you rely on your lawyers, but michael cohen was a convicted liar. he was a lawyer for many people,
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he was a lawyer, and you rely on your lawyers, but michael cohen was a convicted liar. he was a lawyer for many people, not just me. and he got in trouble because of things outside of what he did for me. >> that was an interview with a local news station, seems like a potential additional violation of the gag order. we're still waiting on the judge's decision on that gag order. but he did have an interaction with trump's lawyers yesterday in the gag order hearing that gives you a sense of where his head's at, right? he told judge merchan, you are losing all credibility with the court. that moment, lisa mentioned, stood out to all of us who were following along with the proceedings. how unusual is it to have a judge say that to a lawyer in a hearing like this and what do you think he's going to do? >> this is the first time i've ever heard it. i mean, it's key as a lawyer, you advocate for your client, but you need to be credible. you need to come across as being credible and advocate for your client at the same time, so the fact that the judge said this is very, very po
he was a lawyer, and you rely on your lawyers, but michael cohen was a convicted liar. he was a lawyer for many people, not just me. and he got in trouble because of things outside of what he did for me. >> that was an interview with a local news station, seems like a potential additional violation of the gag order. we're still waiting on the judge's decision on that gag order. but he did have an interaction with trump's lawyers yesterday in the gag order hearing that gives you a sense of...
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the we cohen referred to, pecker said he understood it to me cohen and trump. barbara, can you go back to what is the law that prosecutors are trying to prove that trump broke, or what is the crime that trump committed, that he's sitting there in court for and how does pecker's testimony help corroborate that in any way? >> of course, the law here is falsification of business records to conceal the commission of another crime, i think what the prosecutors have done that's very helpful is to start with the crime and talk about the false my case of the business records as the cover-up. so here, the crime is a statute under new york law, 17-152 that makes it a crime to conspire to promote or prevent the election to any office by unlawful means. campaign expenditures without the intent to report them. cohen paid $130,000. national enquirer paid $30,000 and $120,000 to karen mcdougal. those payments make this illegal. crime is committed. it's enough they falsified with the intent to do that but they've also got that evidence of illegal campaign expenditures. it exte
the we cohen referred to, pecker said he understood it to me cohen and trump. barbara, can you go back to what is the law that prosecutors are trying to prove that trump broke, or what is the crime that trump committed, that he's sitting there in court for and how does pecker's testimony help corroborate that in any way? >> of course, the law here is falsification of business records to conceal the commission of another crime, i think what the prosecutors have done that's very helpful is...
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trump and michael cohen. mr. pecker asaid he agreed to serve as the eyes and ears for rumors that could hurt plump. atsdsing, what i would do is publish positive stories about mr. trump and publish negative stories about his opponents. ection exposing a series of headlines about then candidate trump and derogatory comments making baseless claims about his opponents including ted cruz. pecker admitted today and also testifying his company paid a doorman $30,000 for a completely untrue story about mr. trump fathering a child with his housekeeper so the doorman couldn't take the story else where, trying to save mr. trump and the campaign the potential embarrassment. >> that was nbc's laura jarrett with that report. and joining us now is former assistant district attorney in manhattan catherine christian, and also an nbc legal analyst. thank you for joining us. let's just get your reaction to the david pecker testimony on the witness stand yesterday. how does it help the prosecution? >> it's very helpful, and it's no
trump and michael cohen. mr. pecker asaid he agreed to serve as the eyes and ears for rumors that could hurt plump. atsdsing, what i would do is publish positive stories about mr. trump and publish negative stories about his opponents. ection exposing a series of headlines about then candidate trump and derogatory comments making baseless claims about his opponents including ted cruz. pecker admitted today and also testifying his company paid a doorman $30,000 for a completely untrue story...
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he talks about where michael cohen fits in it. this whole scheme rises and falls through michael cohen to donald trump, and he is at the center of it. and i think in a way his testimony is almost blase, oh, yeah, we were acting doing this and doing that, but the national enquirer was an arm of the trump campaign and that comes out clearly in the testimony, and the timingea becomes so interesting, because for example this doorman had an nda that expired the month trump wins the election. you can see why this all about the election. and davidbo pecker is the first witness, he's the most important witness, he's at the center of it all. >>of the reality is that david pecker is going to be cross examined. what questions would you have for me given how thorough, and he was so matter of fact in delivering the information to the o courtroom to the jurors. what would your sort of strategy be if you're trump's defense? >> a large part of this is he had immunity. there's a reason why they have immunity. they havehey exposure. and if you have
he talks about where michael cohen fits in it. this whole scheme rises and falls through michael cohen to donald trump, and he is at the center of it. and i think in a way his testimony is almost blase, oh, yeah, we were acting doing this and doing that, but the national enquirer was an arm of the trump campaign and that comes out clearly in the testimony, and the timingea becomes so interesting, because for example this doorman had an nda that expired the month trump wins the election. you can...
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trump was asking michael cohen did we hear anything yet? also testified that trump called him directly about the mcdougall story but then the candidate saying i spoke to michael and, quote, he told me about karen and trump said to me, what do you think? p ecker he said trump to push the mcdougall story pick former edison are will resume his testimony we have the day off tomorrow for the trial but we already know how the story ends, the inquirer paid mcdougall 150 grand for the rights to her story and her silence but, here's the asterisk, which is great, trump was supposed to repay p ecker, he wasn't just doing this as charity. he was the pass-through, if you will. but trump did what he always does, he stiffed him on the bill $150,000, which is why michael cohen was the one forced to pay stormy daniels out of his own pocket. that, of course, is why trump was ultimately in court today. msnbc legal correspondent wasn't watching from inside the courtroom, andrew rice also in the courtroom today, he is a writer near magazine where he just profil
trump was asking michael cohen did we hear anything yet? also testified that trump called him directly about the mcdougall story but then the candidate saying i spoke to michael and, quote, he told me about karen and trump said to me, what do you think? p ecker he said trump to push the mcdougall story pick former edison are will resume his testimony we have the day off tomorrow for the trial but we already know how the story ends, the inquirer paid mcdougall 150 grand for the rights to her...
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and that is, he is taking the weight off of michael cohen. it will be the defense actually who will try to build up the importance of cohen. prosecution doesn't have to. combination of basically setting the stage for explaining why they ended up doing what they did with stormy daniels. and, basically explaining, and the paper work. you don't need that much from cohen. so it is a pretty, it is a pretty powerful presentation. we will see how he does on cross. >> what will the defense do in try to destroy his credibility? when you are the publisher of one of the biggest lab toyed ins the world for decades there will be holes to fill. >> i guess there are. but i mean whose buddy was he? >> yes. yes. >> so i'm not sure how they will do that. i'm sure they have something. but if acts with the demeanor and the calmness that he has been showing in the courtroom and doesn't try to fight on cross and do the things you don't want witnesses to do on cross like get defensive. just stick to the facts. you can see what you have to concede. he could end up,
and that is, he is taking the weight off of michael cohen. it will be the defense actually who will try to build up the importance of cohen. prosecution doesn't have to. combination of basically setting the stage for explaining why they ended up doing what they did with stormy daniels. and, basically explaining, and the paper work. you don't need that much from cohen. so it is a pretty, it is a pretty powerful presentation. we will see how he does on cross. >> what will the defense do in...
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the other is they have michael cohen and donald trump talking in which donald trump is ordering cohen to pay off karen mcdougal. i would say for the defense, it looks like the one time that david isn't willing to make up stories to protect donald trump is when he is testifying under penalty of perjury and that's what happened today. he basically put the knife into trump. he is saying trump and i had this deal. and it is chronological. it describes not just what he talked about yesterday. checkbook journalism. basically, that the national inquirer had become an appendage of the trump campaign. and they were making up stories about ted cruz and morphing images and all sorts of stuff. and our campaign finance laws are written to ensure transparency. so that if you are getting some sort of gift whether it is dollars or a donation, that is disclosed to the voters so they can make up their mind. and what this entire steam was start to finish was a way for donald trump to get a bunch of benefits from a journalistic organization without disclosing that to the american people. >> was there a w
the other is they have michael cohen and donald trump talking in which donald trump is ordering cohen to pay off karen mcdougal. i would say for the defense, it looks like the one time that david isn't willing to make up stories to protect donald trump is when he is testifying under penalty of perjury and that's what happened today. he basically put the knife into trump. he is saying trump and i had this deal. and it is chronological. it describes not just what he talked about yesterday....
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without him, cohen doesn't have the credibility. he needs he is so critical. i think you are starting with that immunity issue. >> do you feel, if you are donald trump, and you are his team, there are three people involved in this conspiracy. do you think this puts pressure on him to take the stand or is that too farfetched to imagine? >> well, i think it is unlikely that he will testify for so many reasons. not the least of which is that the cross-examination is going to be brutal. but, one of the things that the prosecution will have to prove is that donald trump knew that what he was doing was breaking the law. one way he would show that was by testifying and say i didn't know these entries were being made. i didn't know i was doing this with the intent of violating the federal election campaign act. he could do that through his testimony. i highly doubt he will do it but i do think you heard a lot of speak from todd blanch in the opening statement which is called lawyer talk. i don't know how we are going to prove the lack of knowledge on mr. trump's behal
without him, cohen doesn't have the credibility. he needs he is so critical. i think you are starting with that immunity issue. >> do you feel, if you are donald trump, and you are his team, there are three people involved in this conspiracy. do you think this puts pressure on him to take the stand or is that too farfetched to imagine? >> well, i think it is unlikely that he will testify for so many reasons. not the least of which is that the cross-examination is going to be brutal....
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trump and his former fixer, michael cohen, he said he agreed to serve as the eyes and ears for rumors that would hurt trump. he said what i would do is publish positive stories about trump and publish negative stories about his opponents. the prosecution showing the jury a series of glowing headlines about then canada trump and derogatory ones about trump's opponents in closing -- including ted cruz. he also testified his company paid a doorman $30,000 for completely untrue story about mr. trump fathering a child with his housekeeper, so the doorman couldn't take the story elsewhere, trying to save mr. trump and the campaign, the potential in person -- embarrassment. the state seeking to hold mr. trump in the criminal contempt for violating the judges gag order that bars him from attacking trial witnesses. >> so they can talk about me and say whatever they want, they can live and i'm not allowed to say anything. i'd love to see everything that's on my mind. >> the defense argued that trump should be permitted to respond to political attacks and the gag order should not cover repost of
trump and his former fixer, michael cohen, he said he agreed to serve as the eyes and ears for rumors that would hurt trump. he said what i would do is publish positive stories about trump and publish negative stories about his opponents. the prosecution showing the jury a series of glowing headlines about then canada trump and derogatory ones about trump's opponents in closing -- including ted cruz. he also testified his company paid a doorman $30,000 for completely untrue story about mr....
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cohen to pay off mcdougal. with those respects to mr.- pecker i would say unfortunate for the defense it looks like one time that david-pecker isn't willing to make up stories to protect donald trump is when he is testifying under penalty of perjury, and that's what happened today is he basically put the knife into trump, he's saying look, trump and i have this deal, and it starts even before that 2015, and it describes not just what he talked about yesterday, and not just catch and kill, but basically the national inquirer had become an appendage of the trump campaign, and they were making up stories about ted cruz, morphing images, and our campaign finance laws are written to ensure transparency. if you're getting some sort of gift, whether dollars or a donation, that it is disclosed to voters, so they can make up their mind. and what this scheme was, start to finish, was away for donald trump to get a bunch of benefits from a journalistic organization without disclosing that to the american people. that is a
cohen to pay off mcdougal. with those respects to mr.- pecker i would say unfortunate for the defense it looks like one time that david-pecker isn't willing to make up stories to protect donald trump is when he is testifying under penalty of perjury, and that's what happened today is he basically put the knife into trump, he's saying look, trump and i have this deal, and it starts even before that 2015, and it describes not just what he talked about yesterday, and not just catch and kill, but...
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witnesses in the oval office with michael cohen, that's not helpful. if a witness says trump was meticulous in signing his checks, and wasn't a passive player that's not helpful. there's nobody the prosecution is lining up that will helpful. josh stein glass and chris conroy, they know what they are doing. so i am overwhelmingly confident donald trump is in trouble, but it is the burden of the prosecution. that's what we started off with , how important david is invalidating how important this is about otherwise why would you sign off, who cares about hush money? there needs to be some nexus, and that is what these witnesses will show. >> do you have suspicion of what they might do? >> of david-pecker? i think they are going to do everything they can to show he is a liar, that what he is saying is not only ill- informed, but he got a nonprosecution agreement, that his hand was forced, and he's trying to cover his basis by lying. it's really the only move they have. poke holes in the case, one witness at a time, and that's what they will be doing with d
witnesses in the oval office with michael cohen, that's not helpful. if a witness says trump was meticulous in signing his checks, and wasn't a passive player that's not helpful. there's nobody the prosecution is lining up that will helpful. josh stein glass and chris conroy, they know what they are doing. so i am overwhelmingly confident donald trump is in trouble, but it is the burden of the prosecution. that's what we started off with , how important david is invalidating how important this...
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michael cohen was not part of the campaign. when he said we, i thought he was talking about himself and mr. trump. it sounds like he thought he was acting at the direction of donald trump. he published stories like this about texas senator ted cruz who challenged trump in the primary. extramarital affairs with multiple women. or this story, remember this one? this one got a little bit of attention. admitted making up linking ted cruz to the john f. kennedy assassination. remember that one? the substance of this is what the inquirer did not practice -- did not publish as part of a practice known as catch and kill. culminating in a 2015 meeting -- >> reporter: tonight a person with the matter tells nbc news that candidate trump was in the room when the national enquirer publisher discussed ways that ami could help quash negative stories about mr. trump's relationships with women. >> that was from 2018 when the meeting was first reported. in that meeting in august he told trump through michael cohen that anything i hear in the mar
michael cohen was not part of the campaign. when he said we, i thought he was talking about himself and mr. trump. it sounds like he thought he was acting at the direction of donald trump. he published stories like this about texas senator ted cruz who challenged trump in the primary. extramarital affairs with multiple women. or this story, remember this one? this one got a little bit of attention. admitted making up linking ted cruz to the john f. kennedy assassination. remember that one? the...
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making the deal with michael cohen, something he says happened in august 2015 with cohen and then campaign communications director hope hicks in the room, was a win-win. the enquirer would publish negative stories about trump's opponents which they did repeatedly, particularly when ben carson, ted cruz, and marco rubio started rising in the polls in the spring of 2016. at the same time, running positive stories featuring donald trump as the ideal next president of the united states, which they also did throughout that year. pecker was personally invited by cohen to trump's presidential announcement in trump tower. and he hoped to financially benefit from how many magazines the pro-trump and anti-trump competitor issues would sell. a total win-win. he also testified that once trump announced his presidential bid, that he was in constant communication with michael cohen, as pecker and a small group of ami editors kept their eyes and ears pealed for stories that could be damaging to trump so they could catch them and kill them before they were published anywhere else. at least before the elec
making the deal with michael cohen, something he says happened in august 2015 with cohen and then campaign communications director hope hicks in the room, was a win-win. the enquirer would publish negative stories about trump's opponents which they did repeatedly, particularly when ben carson, ted cruz, and marco rubio started rising in the polls in the spring of 2016. at the same time, running positive stories featuring donald trump as the ideal next president of the united states, which they...
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we know that's one of the things we expect to hear from michael cohen, but directing what? and what very clearly unfolds in david pecker's testimony is, you know, we didn't do catch and kill before 2015, which is not illegal. catch and kills are not illegal. he sees a business interest for himself and a benefit to the campaign if he writes positive stories about donald trump as a candidate, and negative stories about other candidates. and that evolves, and he starts laying out the picture, and they also provide all of the headlines coming from "national enquirer," you know, positive pour trump but negative for other candidates. but as these allegations start to arrive, the people have stories like dino the doorman and karen mcdougal, you know, all of it becomes something to help the campaign by ensuring these stories don't come out. but that's the key point, to help donald trump's campaign. it comes out in different ways over and over and over again. and if you're a member of that jury, i'm sitting there, i'm thinking that jury is thinking oh, well, this is a pretty clear -
we know that's one of the things we expect to hear from michael cohen, but directing what? and what very clearly unfolds in david pecker's testimony is, you know, we didn't do catch and kill before 2015, which is not illegal. catch and kills are not illegal. he sees a business interest for himself and a benefit to the campaign if he writes positive stories about donald trump as a candidate, and negative stories about other candidates. and that evolves, and he starts laying out the picture, and...
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michael cohen was pleased. you started to allude that to some extent this arrangement you came to at trump tower was mutually beneficial. you could explain what you meant by that. in writing positive stories about mr. trump and writing negative stores about his opponents it would increase news stand sales for the "national enquirer" so for me that was my benefit and then in publishing the stories it would benefit his campaign. brag team, the portion of the agreement that involved notifying mr. cohen about negativetories about women, what was the objective of that. david pecker, as i did in the past, when i notified michael cohen of a negative story, he would try to vet it himself to see if it is true or not and then go to the individual publication to make sure it wasn't getting published an getting killed. brag team, prior to that meeting have you ever purchased atory to the to print it? pecker, no. brag team. and how did that part of it, not publishing the stories help you? pecker, it didn't. crazy. >> fake f
michael cohen was pleased. you started to allude that to some extent this arrangement you came to at trump tower was mutually beneficial. you could explain what you meant by that. in writing positive stories about mr. trump and writing negative stores about his opponents it would increase news stand sales for the "national enquirer" so for me that was my benefit and then in publishing the stories it would benefit his campaign. brag team, the portion of the agreement that involved...
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why would it include cohen? the trump team would argue he's going on television, saying whatever he wants. >> it's all witnesses. cohen is shameless. he's not going to be intimidated. he wants to testify. but there may be other witnesses who say oh, no, look what he's doing to cohen. i'm up next, he's going to go it to me. it's about witnesses and cohen just happens to be one. >> it's too hard to make a carve out. thank you very much. i know you're sticking around in case we have anything. lisa rubin, thank you as well. >>> what can a lawyer realistly advise a client like trump and what do they do when he lashes out perhaps in front of a jury? plus, what is happening on college campuses across the country as pro palestinian protestors try to essentially shutdown the schools. to essent shutdown the schools nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migra
why would it include cohen? the trump team would argue he's going on television, saying whatever he wants. >> it's all witnesses. cohen is shameless. he's not going to be intimidated. he wants to testify. but there may be other witnesses who say oh, no, look what he's doing to cohen. i'm up next, he's going to go it to me. it's about witnesses and cohen just happens to be one. >> it's too hard to make a carve out. thank you very much. i know you're sticking around in case we have...
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but i want to ask you about michael cohen. michael cohen knows he has a credibility problem. michael cohen has spent a lot of time with these prosecutors, right? they've had the conversations but he took a profane swipe at trump on x. wrote among other things you are attacks stink of desperation. we are all hoping you take the stand in your defense. if you're the prosecutor who's calling cohen to the stand, what are you thinking when you see that? >> i'm thinking michael cohen, please shut up. please just do your testifying in the courtroom, but the prosecutor does not control michael cohen. i'm not sure anyone controls michael cohen. so he's not doing the prosecution that he favors in a way that makes his testimony even more credible. although we know at the same time, that he now des dispiezs trump. with regard to the testimony of cohen, they want to hit it and quit it. >> paul and danny, i don't know what the rest of the trial holds when they reconvene on thursday, but the start of this has been pretty dog gone interesting. thank you both. i'm sure we'll speak again very s
but i want to ask you about michael cohen. michael cohen knows he has a credibility problem. michael cohen has spent a lot of time with these prosecutors, right? they've had the conversations but he took a profane swipe at trump on x. wrote among other things you are attacks stink of desperation. we are all hoping you take the stand in your defense. if you're the prosecutor who's calling cohen to the stand, what are you thinking when you see that? >> i'm thinking michael cohen, please...
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michael cohen. so, there is really michael cohen was steering it and our client really just said, the minimal. so, that's what they're going to have to do if that audio, the defense, but clearly the prosecution is going to say, look, detail oriented, micromanager, listen to the tape, it speaks for itself. >> one thing that occurred to me when i listened to this again yesterday, this gets at the heart of beyond a reasonable doubt, right? you can make an argument as catherine just did on both sides of this, but in the context of the trial, what will the jury find as most believable, beyond a reasonable doubt? >> you can certainly almost always make an argument on both sides of any question. the question is can you make a credible argument on both sides? you're playing one audiotape. and it is important. but it is not going to be by itself determinative, chris. it will be important to corroborate what cohen says, it will be important to corroborate what pecker says, and it may corroborate what other pe
michael cohen. so, there is really michael cohen was steering it and our client really just said, the minimal. so, that's what they're going to have to do if that audio, the defense, but clearly the prosecution is going to say, look, detail oriented, micromanager, listen to the tape, it speaks for itself. >> one thing that occurred to me when i listened to this again yesterday, this gets at the heart of beyond a reasonable doubt, right? you can make an argument as catherine just did on...
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that would be michael cohen. so think of this, again, if the analogy works as a brick wall that the prosecutors are constructing. and each of the witnesses add some number of bricks to the wall. hopefully at the end of the trial, you have a big sturdy wall and the jury understands the theory of the case and accepts your evidence. and so are you trying to build up mr. cohen's credibility? you know, i think of it in a different way. you're trying to corroborate him so that even though he can be attacked and he will be on cross-examination as a convicted felon who really has a passing acquaintance with the truth, other witnesses and other documents will show the jury they can trust the overall story. >> chuck rosenberg, andrew weissmann, vaughn hillyard, thanks so much. we'll be checking back with you later in the program. >>> and as donald trump is in that new york city courtroom with david pecker, of course, on the stand, a central figure in the hush money case, president biden is traveling to florida this hour to
that would be michael cohen. so think of this, again, if the analogy works as a brick wall that the prosecutors are constructing. and each of the witnesses add some number of bricks to the wall. hopefully at the end of the trial, you have a big sturdy wall and the jury understands the theory of the case and accepts your evidence. and so are you trying to build up mr. cohen's credibility? you know, i think of it in a different way. you're trying to corroborate him so that even though he can be...
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for donald trump, and he says he met cohen at a bar mitzvah. he said he was introduced in 2007, and he said that donald trump told him that michael cohen was hired and that he could do a lot of great things for him, and above all the contacts he had with trump should go through michael cohen, and if there were rumors or stories coming out or anything i heard or overheard, i would call michael cohen directly, and that was in 2007. he seems -- the prosecution is setting up the prosecution here of where cohen was having direct contact with david pecker, and donald trump let pecker know this, if he heard from michael cohen, he was hearing from trump, and that what seems to be in the line of questioning right now, josÉ. >> so interesting. and pecker is now talking about the popularity of trump for his magazine, previous to 2015, and certainly up to the election, but it's interesting, he's saying when mr. trump launched the "celebrity apprentice," basically "the national enquirer" skyrocketed and we did research on proper covers and which celebrity,
for donald trump, and he says he met cohen at a bar mitzvah. he said he was introduced in 2007, and he said that donald trump told him that michael cohen was hired and that he could do a lot of great things for him, and above all the contacts he had with trump should go through michael cohen, and if there were rumors or stories coming out or anything i heard or overheard, i would call michael cohen directly, and that was in 2007. he seems -- the prosecution is setting up the prosecution here of...
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he didn't respond directly to cohen. he did it publicly on a public forum and it has the potential to threaten the integrity of the criminal proceeding. >> back to vaughn for a moment. i understand there has been some interaction between the attorney for donald trump and the judge? what's happening? >> reporter: judge merchan dissatisfied with the answer that todd blanche is giving him when it comes to the specifics about what donald trump's intentions were. we're now under the third social media post, a direct mention of stormy daniels in an article related to her. and in which todd blanche is defending his client, donald trump, by saying that stormy daniels is broadcasting on twitter, talking to the press, having documentaries and that donald trump should be able to respond to the words that she is saying. and how critical she is of him to which judge merchan fired up in response and says, quote, i am asking a question. i keep asking you over and over to give me an example and i'm not getting an answer, saying that it
he didn't respond directly to cohen. he did it publicly on a public forum and it has the potential to threaten the integrity of the criminal proceeding. >> back to vaughn for a moment. i understand there has been some interaction between the attorney for donald trump and the judge? what's happening? >> reporter: judge merchan dissatisfied with the answer that todd blanche is giving him when it comes to the specifics about what donald trump's intentions were. we're now under the...
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one, through the testimony of michael cohen. but i was looking yesterday to hear how else are they going to prove that? they say they have a photograph of the two gentlemen at that meeting. they also have invoices days afterwards. a couple days after that, the first payment to michael cohen. but i was hoping to hear that they have a lot more than that. somebody who was also at the meeting, who overheard the meeting, who placed some of these documents in front of donald trump, heard his comments about that. i didn't hear that yesterday. i'm hoping that we hear prosecutors have a lot more about the back end of the deal as much as they do about the front end of it. >> chuck, what stood out to you? >> i'd agree with lisa but add one thing. circumstances also matter. we often talk about there being direct evidence, maybe conversations or photographs or emails of a transaction, but circumstances matter, too, willie. if you walk out of your house and there's snow on the front lawn, what do you think happened last night? it snowed. you
one, through the testimony of michael cohen. but i was looking yesterday to hear how else are they going to prove that? they say they have a photograph of the two gentlemen at that meeting. they also have invoices days afterwards. a couple days after that, the first payment to michael cohen. but i was hoping to hear that they have a lot more than that. somebody who was also at the meeting, who overheard the meeting, who placed some of these documents in front of donald trump, heard his comments...
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michael cohen has admitted he has misled in prior testimony. what are the risks the prosecution runs with starting with people who have these aassociations? >> listen, i think i'm not a lawyer but prosecutors tell me in an ideal world all of the witnesses could be nuns or librarians. that's nut the world in which -- >> not in this trial. >> not at all, right? one of the things, what they have in this trial is first-hand evidence from people. they've got a series of canceled checks from donald trump many of which were written -- made out while he was sitting in the oval office. there's audio recording that we're going to see, first-hand information. donald trump's voice. so the prosecution has a lot of things on its side. >> anthony, stay with me for the next story. concerns another legal case against donald trump. newly unsealed transcripts reveal that a high level trump white house staffer warned him that he could be indicted if he didn't return the classified documents that he took with him when leaving office. yesterday nearly 400 pages of i
michael cohen has admitted he has misled in prior testimony. what are the risks the prosecution runs with starting with people who have these aassociations? >> listen, i think i'm not a lawyer but prosecutors tell me in an ideal world all of the witnesses could be nuns or librarians. that's nut the world in which -- >> not in this trial. >> not at all, right? one of the things, what they have in this trial is first-hand evidence from people. they've got a series of canceled...
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even though he apparently never paid michael cohen this way before, coincidentally, after michael cohen on his own volition and his own reasons, decided to take out a home equity line of credit to pay a pornography star that he himself never met and never had sex with. coincidentally after michael cohen did that out of the goodness of his heart, for his own mysterious reasons that have nothing to do with donald trump, coincidentally after that happened, trump decided to start a new way of paying us on temblor that involved 35,000 other checks he signed in the oval office. it was all a coincidence and none of it had anything to do with the election. maybe. we will see. we will talk tonight about what prosecutors said about how they came up with a payment plan to cohen , personally, i unintentionally loudly snorted in court when i heard this, which was not polite and annoyed the person sitting next to me. i will apologize and explain. we will talk about the first witness whose name is david they like to test our maturity as broadcasters. he was the ceo of the company that used to run the
even though he apparently never paid michael cohen this way before, coincidentally, after michael cohen on his own volition and his own reasons, decided to take out a home equity line of credit to pay a pornography star that he himself never met and never had sex with. coincidentally after michael cohen did that out of the goodness of his heart, for his own mysterious reasons that have nothing to do with donald trump, coincidentally after that happened, trump decided to start a new way of...
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and has trump said -- we know he goes bad on michael cohen yesterday. what has he said about david they've been friends and allies for decades. >> it was interesting because at trial you start with their most important witness and end with your strongest typically. this gave us a witness of where this is going and it was telling from the opening statement from the prosecution that they wanted to link this directly to the election. the whole groundwork leading up to david was trump ended this catch and kill for the campaign. it was to attack political opponents. it was for david -- and this is clearly where it's going. david was asked how we operated and orchestrated the catch and kill schemes. over $10,000 that editors had to ask him if they could spend that kind of money on sources and try to get stories. he will narrate the entirety of the relationship between trump and him and the national enquirer and that's why it makes them important. >> the prosecution is hoping he will be that narrator, neal? >> absolutely. i think the aim of the prosecution and
and has trump said -- we know he goes bad on michael cohen yesterday. what has he said about david they've been friends and allies for decades. >> it was interesting because at trial you start with their most important witness and end with your strongest typically. this gave us a witness of where this is going and it was telling from the opening statement from the prosecution that they wanted to link this directly to the election. the whole groundwork leading up to david was trump ended...
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cohen to bring a copy of a bank statement showing the $130,000 payment that cohen had made to keep stormy daniels quiet before the election. weisselberg and cohen agreed to a total repayment amount of $420,000. here's how they got to that number. this is good. they started with $130,000 that trump owed cohen for the store hawaii daniels payoff. then they added $50,000 for a separate reimbursement cohen was claiming which had to do with tech services he paid for during the campaign. that adds up to $180,000. then they agreed to double that amount to $360,000 to account for taxes. now, of course, if trump was just reimbursing cohen, there was no need to gross it up for taxes. they doubled it because their plan was to call it income instead of a reimbursement. if cohen was getting money they were calling income, he would have to pay taxes on it. cohen was close to a 50% tax bracket, so to make him whole, they had to double the amount to $360,000. then he had added another $60,000 as a year end bonus and all of that. cos out to a total of $420,000. and alan weisselberg wrote all of that down.
cohen to bring a copy of a bank statement showing the $130,000 payment that cohen had made to keep stormy daniels quiet before the election. weisselberg and cohen agreed to a total repayment amount of $420,000. here's how they got to that number. this is good. they started with $130,000 that trump owed cohen for the store hawaii daniels payoff. then they added $50,000 for a separate reimbursement cohen was claiming which had to do with tech services he paid for during the campaign. that adds up...
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arguing the former president was so desperate to contain the damage with female voters he directed cohen to pay off stormy daniels so she can go public about an alleged sexual encounter which mr. trump denies. but it's not the hush money itself that he is charged with in this trial, it's how then president trump documented his monthly reimbursement payments to cohen on internal records as legal expenses, prosecutors telling the jury today, it was election fraud, pure and simple. but mr. trump is not facing conspiracy or campaign-finance violations, something the defense sought to highlight today saying the payments to cohen were for legal expenses arguing there's nothing wrong with trying to influence an election, it's called democracy, not a crime. >> former national enquirer publisher and longtime friend of donald trump, david packer was the first witness called by the prosecution and testified briefly about what he called using checkbook journalism to pay for stories. he's expected to continue his testimony tomorrow. donald trump has pleaded not guilty and denies having any relationsh
arguing the former president was so desperate to contain the damage with female voters he directed cohen to pay off stormy daniels so she can go public about an alleged sexual encounter which mr. trump denies. but it's not the hush money itself that he is charged with in this trial, it's how then president trump documented his monthly reimbursement payments to cohen on internal records as legal expenses, prosecutors telling the jury today, it was election fraud, pure and simple. but mr. trump...
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that is michael cohen is a l liar, so what? my response to that is so what in that what do we need to believe michael cohen for ? in order to get to a verdict here, what is the credibility issue i as a juror needed to have with michael cohen? here are the checks, here is the allen weisselberg notes, here's stormy daniels lawyer testifying that michael cohen and i put it all together. there's michael cohen's $130,000.00 going to that lawyer. there's stormy daniels setting i got $130,000.00. er i don't know what it matters. i don't get why michael cohen, why his credibility would matter since all of the facts of the money movement he is involved with our established before he opens his mouth. >> so, that is exactly what the state is going to argue in summation. you are going to hear the defense say if that is true, why did they call him? he has a ton of baggage. they are saying they really need him. he can provide evidence about he says donald trump knew that the scheme was to have these false business records. remember everythin
that is michael cohen is a l liar, so what? my response to that is so what in that what do we need to believe michael cohen for ? in order to get to a verdict here, what is the credibility issue i as a juror needed to have with michael cohen? here are the checks, here is the allen weisselberg notes, here's stormy daniels lawyer testifying that michael cohen and i put it all together. there's michael cohen's $130,000.00 going to that lawyer. there's stormy daniels setting i got $130,000.00. er i...
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let's pay in cash, and michael cohen goes, no, no, no. >> let me play it. this is michael cohen. this is a 2016 recording. remember, michael cohen he gets a campaign website, a trump campaign website, which he didn't have before. supposed to be his private lawyer. and this is a conversation they have as donald trump is running for president. this is michael cohen talking about buying the rights to karen mcdougal, the former playboy bunny's story. take a listen. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all that info regarding our friend david. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing -- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay. >> cash? >> no, no, no. >> jill, they're going to try to impeach michael cohen, but cohen i'm sure has more of that. he's on the phone with him saying i need to do the thing i'm accused of doing. >> not only that. one, he's pled guilty. two, they have done a very skillful opening statement. and by calling david pecker as the first witness, they are building the structure that will then lead to the supporting beams and the det
let's pay in cash, and michael cohen goes, no, no, no. >> let me play it. this is michael cohen. this is a 2016 recording. remember, michael cohen he gets a campaign website, a trump campaign website, which he didn't have before. supposed to be his private lawyer. and this is a conversation they have as donald trump is running for president. this is michael cohen talking about buying the rights to karen mcdougal, the former playboy bunny's story. take a listen. >> i need to open up...
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michael cohen didn't run for president. michael cohen went to jail. it feels like that is a basic topic sentence under which a lot of these witnesses will be supporting that story and that plot with their testimony. >> right. i think the idea is to almost not quite extract michael cohen but to build the evidence around him. he will probably come at the end in terms of of a witness. even today, i'm still struck by the new information that came out. we'll have narrators throughout. we heard about text messages that went back and forthwith the "national enquirer" when they went out to see karen mcdougal, one of the women who had a relationship with donald trump. they were trying to confirm if the story was true. there was an election night, a pledge that went back and for the between one of the lawyers involved that was representing karen mcdougal. we'll see a lot of that come through. and david pecker was not on the stand for very long. but just hearing the details that we got, the idea that they would, if a story, reporters were given about $10,000 to
michael cohen didn't run for president. michael cohen went to jail. it feels like that is a basic topic sentence under which a lot of these witnesses will be supporting that story and that plot with their testimony. >> right. i think the idea is to almost not quite extract michael cohen but to build the evidence around him. he will probably come at the end in terms of of a witness. even today, i'm still struck by the new information that came out. we'll have narrators throughout. we heard...
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how to pay michael cohen, pay stormy daniels through michael cohen, and cover it up. i don't think that their argument that there was this ironclad wall between trump and his business during the presidency holds up. certainly wasn't true this a legal sense and a practical sense too. information about the business was kept from them. >> and eli, how does reporting square with what we have learned from cohen, for example, and the story the prosecutor and the defense laid out today. they were different stories. >> well, if you're talking about how this relates back to the election, what we know, and what we knew at the time was that this happened in the context of a very close race with a month or so to go until election day and polls starting to show the race moving away from trump after the first debate with hillary clinton, and so you can really see in the way the campaign reacted to it that, you know, this was something that they were concerned about. people very close to trump thought the race was over. thought he was going to have to drop out. or sort of politely u
how to pay michael cohen, pay stormy daniels through michael cohen, and cover it up. i don't think that their argument that there was this ironclad wall between trump and his business during the presidency holds up. certainly wasn't true this a legal sense and a practical sense too. information about the business was kept from them. >> and eli, how does reporting square with what we have learned from cohen, for example, and the story the prosecutor and the defense laid out today. they...
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he was the one who directed cohen to do exactly what cohen did and david pecker. so that could be turned on its head against him. >> and to that point, he's been trying to push this narrative of late in the public space. i just paid my attorney for attorney's fees. i didn't get involved in that. but what she just said is critically important because number one, in terms of what sworn testimony that the jury's going to be able to consider, absent his testimony and absent him getting on the stand himself, they're going to have a hard time putting that in front of the jury. that even that theory. that's something donald trump wants the public to believe, but i don't necessarily know they're ever going to hear about it in the jury box unless he testifies. through his questions of other witnesses that's something that's possible, but here's the key. there are prosecutors who were on bragg's team who worked and prosecuted the case against the trump organization and are extremely familiar with how these things work and so they have the goods to counteract that narrative.
he was the one who directed cohen to do exactly what cohen did and david pecker. so that could be turned on its head against him. >> and to that point, he's been trying to push this narrative of late in the public space. i just paid my attorney for attorney's fees. i didn't get involved in that. but what she just said is critically important because number one, in terms of what sworn testimony that the jury's going to be able to consider, absent his testimony and absent him getting on the...
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they call it a payment to lawyer because as you know, cohen is lawyer. represented a lot of people over the years. i'm not the only one. and wasn't very good in a lot of ways in terms of his representation, but he represented a lot of people. but he puts in an invoice or whatever, a bill, and they pay it and call it a legal expense. i got indicted for that. what else would you call it? actually, nobody's been able to say what you're supposed to call it. if a lawyer puts in a bill or an invoice and you pay the bill and in the book, it's a little line that says, very small little line. sounds like you can tell a life story. they marked it down to a legal expense. this is why i got indicted. i got indicted, i'm the leading candidate. i'm beated biden. beating the republicans now. i have the nomination and this is what they try and take me all the trail for. that checks being paid to a lawyer. he is a lawyer, or was a lawyer. and also the things he got in trouble for were things that had nothing to do with me. he got in trouble and went to jail. this had not
they call it a payment to lawyer because as you know, cohen is lawyer. represented a lot of people over the years. i'm not the only one. and wasn't very good in a lot of ways in terms of his representation, but he represented a lot of people. but he puts in an invoice or whatever, a bill, and they pay it and call it a legal expense. i got indicted for that. what else would you call it? actually, nobody's been able to say what you're supposed to call it. if a lawyer puts in a bill or an invoice...
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so with a michael cohen style witness, you don't run from the fact that michael cohen is michael cohen and you don't run from the fact that he has a shady past. you don't run from the fact that this guy is not a saint. what you do is repackage that. you might tell the jury, you're going to hear from michael cohen, and you're going to hear that he hasn't always been honest. or you might hear something to kind of front that. you frame it as we didn't choose michael cohen. you know who chose michael cohen, the defendant, donald trump. michael cohen is exactly the kind of guy this you hire to do this kind of scheme, and you frame a weakness and try to fit it back into your broader narrative, that's what i would expect the prosecution to do here. >> there's a point here, i'd like to ask vaughn about that. in the access hollywood tape to the jury, he said he didn't know he was on -- and he's also mentioning hope hicks, so these are some of the characters that we will be -- and incidents that we'll be hearing, even though the video is not going to be shown, but the transcript is available. >>
so with a michael cohen style witness, you don't run from the fact that michael cohen is michael cohen and you don't run from the fact that he has a shady past. you don't run from the fact that this guy is not a saint. what you do is repackage that. you might tell the jury, you're going to hear from michael cohen, and you're going to hear that he hasn't always been honest. or you might hear something to kind of front that. you frame it as we didn't choose michael cohen. you know who chose...
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the defense is going to try to discredit the main witness, michael cohen. it's going to be harder for other witnesses who are trump loyalists. the reason pecker has been cooperative is because he's under a non-prosecution agreement. he cut a deal with federal prosecutors and has been cooperating with prosecutors ever since. he's a key witness to corroborate michael cohen, but also explain the larger scheme. jurors want to know the why. it's not an element of the crime of falsification of business records, but they want to know the why. that's why he's really important. i also think along the same lines hope hicks will be really important. like david pecker, on the inside, she's someone who doesn't have an axe to grind against donald trump like michael cohen does. that's why there are such key witnesses here. it's going to be harder for the defense to establish bias against people, including hope hicks, who is still in trump's inner circle. >> it will be fascinating. there will be live coverage all day on msnbc. that does it for us this morning. we'll see yo
the defense is going to try to discredit the main witness, michael cohen. it's going to be harder for other witnesses who are trump loyalists. the reason pecker has been cooperative is because he's under a non-prosecution agreement. he cut a deal with federal prosecutors and has been cooperating with prosecutors ever since. he's a key witness to corroborate michael cohen, but also explain the larger scheme. jurors want to know the why. it's not an element of the crime of falsification of...
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the defense is going to try to put michael cohen on trial. they're going to try to raise reasonable doubt that this guy is a convicted liar. they're going to try to concept over the part he hide to protect donald trump. they're going to try to say you cannot believe anything this guy says. he's a key witness, and if you don't believe him, the whole case goes away. the prosecution is going to show they've got corroboration. the first witness is going to be david pecker, the guy who can corroborate michael cohen and used to be on trump's side. he's going to set the stage for what this is about. this is not a one-off payment to stormy daniels, but a scheme to prevent things being said. karen mcdougal is expected to testify. a doorman apparently had information that turned out to be false about trump's love child. i think it's damaging for the former president who's going to use the sergeant schultz defense, i know nothing. >> you look at how the prosecutors are going to paint a picture after the "access hollywood" case comes out. i was covering
the defense is going to try to put michael cohen on trial. they're going to try to raise reasonable doubt that this guy is a convicted liar. they're going to try to concept over the part he hide to protect donald trump. they're going to try to say you cannot believe anything this guy says. he's a key witness, and if you don't believe him, the whole case goes away. the prosecution is going to show they've got corroboration. the first witness is going to be david pecker, the guy who can...
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Apr 22, 2024
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checks that donald trump was writing, including out of the oval office, you take the weakness of michael cohen lying and turn it into a strength. you talk about his motive for lying, which was to help his former boss. i am not all that concerned that if the jury follows the evidence and applies the instructions of law, as judge merchan gives it to them, i am fairly confident they may end up convicting donald trump and may do it in a new york minute. >> jurors have already had to worry about their identities being leaked, a couple jurors have been asked to be removed, might we see other jurors ask to be dismissed? >> i feel like it's almost inevitable that we will have other jury bumps along the way. it's not that unusual, when we pick a jury, was in the jurors home for the night, they come back the next day to begin hearing opening statements. one or more of the jurors are like, you know what, i came up with some reason, some concerns, and i might not be able to sit and that happens all the time. you know, early on in the process, the judge, if those reasons are valid, can dismiss that juror a
checks that donald trump was writing, including out of the oval office, you take the weakness of michael cohen lying and turn it into a strength. you talk about his motive for lying, which was to help his former boss. i am not all that concerned that if the jury follows the evidence and applies the instructions of law, as judge merchan gives it to them, i am fairly confident they may end up convicting donald trump and may do it in a new york minute. >> jurors have already had to worry...
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Apr 22, 2024
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he will not stop with michael cohen. he will make people involved in this trial he will make them pay for being involved in it. >> there is, everything in our system is designed to protect donald trump's rights. he is innocent until proven guilty. and, donald trump seems hellbent on perverting a system that is set to protect him. and there are a lot of things here. there are benefits, and the system is designed to ensure that the defendants have a lot of rights. it is designed, they often say, to ensure that it is better than 10 guilty people go free than that one innocent person be convicted. there are a lot of rights designed to protect the defendant. yet as you say, donald trump is attacking that system that has all of these benefits for him. and it will tell you, their job is to preserve and protect the constitution and to make sure the system works because it has to work with the defenders and work against people who are innocent. we will see where donald trump falls. and i also think a big part of what he is trying
he will not stop with michael cohen. he will make people involved in this trial he will make them pay for being involved in it. >> there is, everything in our system is designed to protect donald trump's rights. he is innocent until proven guilty. and, donald trump seems hellbent on perverting a system that is set to protect him. and there are a lot of things here. there are benefits, and the system is designed to ensure that the defendants have a lot of rights. it is designed, they often...
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was involved in, there was a time he was saying you have to ask michael cohen. is there a window in which prior to being president and during presidency, that could be applied? >> most likely not, even though he signed a check while he was president, a check that went to michael cohen, that ultimately went to stormy daniels, it all related back to conduct that took place before he became president and he was sort of wrapping it up it was in no way a presidential duty and i've not team are you it was a presidential duty. >> carol and molly, thank you . >>> still ahead, what to do about major ethics concerns on the supreme court. congresswoman stansbury has an idea. she joins me, next. nering on 5g-powered analytics to help improve player performance. t-mobile's network helps aaa stay connected nationwide... to get their members back on the road. and las vegas grand prix chose t-mobile to help fuel operations for one of the world's largest racing events. now is the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. hello, ghostbusters. it's do
was involved in, there was a time he was saying you have to ask michael cohen. is there a window in which prior to being president and during presidency, that could be applied? >> most likely not, even though he signed a check while he was president, a check that went to michael cohen, that ultimately went to stormy daniels, it all related back to conduct that took place before he became president and he was sort of wrapping it up it was in no way a presidential duty and i've not team are...
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of course michael cohen was lying. in large part to try to protect donald trump and keep him out of hot water. but it's not the question of whether a witness lied previously that will convince a jury about the strength or weakness of the case. it's whether they are telling the truth now and whether they have corroborated with things like covert audio recordings of donald trump and michael cohen conspiring to commit the crime. check with hard evidence like documents, reimbursement checks that donald trump was writing including out of the oval office. you take the weakness and you turn it into a strength because you would talk about the motive for lying, which was to help his former boss. i'm not all that concerned that if the jury will follow the evidence and applies the instruction of laws as they give it to him. i am fairly confident that they might end up convicting donald trump and they might do it in a new york minute. >> and glen, they have had to worry about their identities being leaked. a couple have been asked
of course michael cohen was lying. in large part to try to protect donald trump and keep him out of hot water. but it's not the question of whether a witness lied previously that will convince a jury about the strength or weakness of the case. it's whether they are telling the truth now and whether they have corroborated with things like covert audio recordings of donald trump and michael cohen conspiring to commit the crime. check with hard evidence like documents, reimbursement checks that...
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i see michael cohen for all the missteps and a man who is telling the truth. i think you are going to see trump really, really struggle during this period and it is not the only time he will be on trial. right in the middle of this campaign, he is going to spend a month or more in court and then there are three more cases behind that. i really don't think at this moment, i don't believe he's going to win the election. this is the first time that i have felt that and i feel he has crossed it. and we know he's guilty in that case, but you know he's guilty and that it is absolutely overwhelming. and i think he's sitting there now, terrified that this is not only going to be bad for his running for president, but that it might actually land him in prison. >> yeah. >> in the meantime he'll spend the next four weeks in the prison by legal authorities. >> yeah. >> by what legal authorities will be deemed as they were across the line in terms of the crime. well, we'll see. we never imagined, and we have not seen the american history or the american former president or
i see michael cohen for all the missteps and a man who is telling the truth. i think you are going to see trump really, really struggle during this period and it is not the only time he will be on trial. right in the middle of this campaign, he is going to spend a month or more in court and then there are three more cases behind that. i really don't think at this moment, i don't believe he's going to win the election. this is the first time that i have felt that and i feel he has crossed it....
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cohen but the fact of his plea and that pleading guilty, that was his formal break from donald trump under his spell he had fallen for a number of years as the first person donald trump spoke to in the morning, last person donald trump spoke to at night and when he decided to plead out and confessed to his crimes that was the ultimate break between donald trump and michael cohen who are now fierce nemeses and will face a showdown in this case, expect the district attorney to preview that for us. in contrast, what you're going to hear from the defense is really going to be not so much a contest of what actually happened but whether donald trump understood what was going on here and whether he had been paying michael cohen, he knew that he was covering up those payments. we will see what happens on monday when they each flush out their cases for us. >> thank you so much for your service, on behalf of all of your colleagues. thank you for joining us. >>> it's extraordinary that this is where we are. to lisa's last point there, the facts are established by trump's own justice department,
cohen but the fact of his plea and that pleading guilty, that was his formal break from donald trump under his spell he had fallen for a number of years as the first person donald trump spoke to in the morning, last person donald trump spoke to at night and when he decided to plead out and confessed to his crimes that was the ultimate break between donald trump and michael cohen who are now fierce nemeses and will face a showdown in this case, expect the district attorney to preview that for...
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you have michael cohen, transformer fixer at the center of this. he knows where the bodies are buried and there is corroboration. although trump will call him a convicted perjure her and he did go down the line but he was lying for donald trump and he got others like the former head of the national enquirer who will corroborate. he will be the first witness tomorrow. that will be a powerful witness. plus a trump loyalist who is supposed to corroborate cohen's testimony. you don't have to prove election interference. you have to show that there was a falsification of a business record that led to committing another crime like a campaign crime. as long as they show that he knew about what was going on and he knew what was going on than he should go down for this. >> you saw in the new york times article that david would be the first witness. we cannot verify that but it's something we can go with at this point, attributing it to the new york times. while trump sits in for the hush money trial tomorrow, another judge will hear an application to reject
you have michael cohen, transformer fixer at the center of this. he knows where the bodies are buried and there is corroboration. although trump will call him a convicted perjure her and he did go down the line but he was lying for donald trump and he got others like the former head of the national enquirer who will corroborate. he will be the first witness tomorrow. that will be a powerful witness. plus a trump loyalist who is supposed to corroborate cohen's testimony. you don't have to prove...