is there a lot to discuss? i'm asking tonight. did the tories then get the battering that many predicted, predicted? and let's face it , had predicted, predicted? and let's face it, had hoped for or not. also, do you think labour did as well as expected? and what about reform? there were high hopes for those guys . do you think for those guys. do you think they matched up to that or not? also, do you think now it's time for a general election? if not now , then when? and by the way, now, then when? and by the way, did you see some of the absolutely, shockingly low turnouts? you tell me if you didn't vote, how on earth could we engage you to do so? is there any way at all or not? i want to

know what you think to it . all. know what you think to it. all. yes, indeed. i've got a lot to get stuck into with you tonight. paul embry and lord moylan will be keeping me company. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest headlines. >> michelle, thank you very much. and good evening from the newsroom. it'sjust much. and good evening from the newsroom. it's just gone 6:00, and we start with the top story tonight that sir keir starmer has claimed labour's gains in england's local elections are a direct message to the prime minister as he renewed demands for rishi sunak to call a general election . so far, labour general election. so far, labour has gained more than 100 seats and taken control of six more councils in england, while the conservatives have lost almost 300 seats. the liberal democrats, meanwhile , have also democrats, meanwhile, have also made some gains, with party leader sir ed davey pledging to make the conservative government history . history. >> people from around our great country have had enough of this

out—of—touch conservative government they've had enough of being taken for granted and being taken for granted and being let down. it's time for change. and across this country , change. and across this country, from cheltenham to dorset, from west oxfordshire to here in winchester, so many people , winchester, so many people, including lifelong conservatives, are switching to the liberal democrats to make that change happen . that change happen. >> meanwhile, the prime minister has admitted the local election results have been disappointing for the conservatives, but that it doesn't necessarily mean that labour will win the general election. his party did manage to retain tees valley, with ben houchen being re—elected there. rishi sunak says that result is evidence people will, he says, stick with the conservatives come the general election . come the general election. >> keir starmer came here twice, rachel reeves came here three times. >> but even they couldn't dislodge ben and the fantastic conservative team. right. and they also threw a lot of mud. it

needs to be said in this election because they were angry, angry that ben has delivered more for this region in seven years than labour party managed in 30 years. >> well, let's take a quick look at the latest council results from across england. if you're watching on television, you can see here those latest results we expect by the end of tonight, most results will be in. do stay with us on gb news for full coverage throughout the evening. on that and more results to follow into tomorrow, including the west midlands and london's mayor. in other news, a schoolboy has been convicted of murdering another 15 year old boy outside a primary school in leeds last november. the teenager , who can't be named, teenager, who can't be named, was 14 at the time of that attack in horsforth . he's attack in horsforth. he's admitted stabbing alfie lewis with a 13 centimetre long kitchen knife in full view of other pupils, but he has denied murder. he claimed in court that he was trying to protect his own life, but that has been disputed by prosecutors . a former

by prosecutors. a former solicitor has been sentenced today to more than seven and a half years in jail for running what a judge has described as a deceptive immigration scheme. flora mendez, from luton, made up fake addresses in grenfell tower and charged victims £2,800 to submit fraudulent immigration applications. she also exploited the windrush scheme , providing the windrush scheme, providing services to people without being qualified. the indian national continued providing illegal immigration services despite being struck off in 2015. the judge in the case today called her actions truly disgraceful and sentenced her to 90 months behind bars . and finally, before behind bars. and finally, before we hand back to michel, a critical incident has been declared at a number of hospitals in bristol this evening following a power outage. the local nhs trust has posted on social media urging the public not to attend bristol's main city centre hospital until the incident is resolved. we understand that avon and somerset police have

been at the scene in the last few hours, where roads in the surrounding areas were closed. people are now being urged to contact 111 for any medical help . those are the headlines. plenty more still to come with michelle throughout the next houn michelle throughout the next hour. until then, you can sign up to gb news alerts. just scan the code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . gb news. com slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that. hello, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel, the conservative life peer lord moylan and the trade unionist and fireman paul embery with you reunited, the friday dream team . reunited, the friday dream team. it feels like it's been a long time. >> i'll correct you. firefighter. get the terminology correct. come on. >> well, we don't try. i don't try and kind of kowtow to, ridiculous political correctness here. >> women in the fire service for 50 years now. >> well, won't there be a fire woman then?

>> no, no, because no, that doesn't work, does it? why? because firefighter covers everybody like police officer covers men and women. >> yawn. well, why do you have to have a generic term just to accommodate a group of people? why can't you be specific? i would want to be a fire woman. are you? >> are you a tv presenter woman or a tv presenter ? or a tv presenter? >> no, i'm a guru of everything. we know that i'm the host of tv's best debate programme in town. that's what i like to call myself. >> i won't argue with that, by the way, there's just listening to those headlines. they're absolutely shocking, isn't it, how many teenagers seem to be killing all their teenagers at the moment? you listen to things like that, and it's what, 14, 15, 16 year olds killing like that, and it's what, 14, 15,16 year olds killing their fellow teenagers. and i think i want to pick them up and shake them, because even if you don't like someone, you've got a problem or something. when you're 14, 15, 16, you probably won't even know that person. when you're 20 years old. life moves on, doesn't it? i think what a waste of all of those lives, all of them. it's absolutely tragic, isn't it, anyway, look, there was a big

day yesterday . you might have day yesterday. you might have noficed day yesterday. you might have noticed it was indeed polling day, lots and lots of polls taking place on lots of different levels. when it was , different levels. when it was, whether it was police and crime commissioners, whether it was local councils , mayors or so on local councils, mayors or so on and so forth. lots of those reactions and results are in now. there's still some more to come, but tonight i want to explore it all. and crucially , i explore it all. and crucially, i want to involve you in this conversation, i want to know your thoughts on it all. and i also want to ask you, you don't have to tell me who if you don't want to, if you're shy. but did you actually turn out and vote? because if you didn't, i'm fascinated to understand why, because the turnout in so many of these areas were absolutely diabolical. so no judgement here. just tell me if there's anything at all. if you didn't vote that could motivate you to do so going forward. get in touch all the usual ways. tweet me, email me, or go on the website and talk to me on your say, shall we cross live though, to our political correspondent katherine forster, without any

more of a delay because catherine, there's lots to get through tonight, anyone that's been busy all day long that hasn't followed the news, just bnng hasn't followed the news, just bring out the best bits, the key points, if you will. >> yes. so a very bad day for the conservative party, as we knew it was going to be the last time these, local election, these particular seats were fought was 2021, when boris johnson was sort of at the height of his powers. so lots of losses to labour, as you would expect. but but a few crumbs of comfort, i would say, for the prime minister. and first of all, they came second to labour, that blackpool south that by—election, caused by scott bell and the lobbying scandal that went to labour. but the conservatives did come second. reform snapping at their heels just 100 votes behind. and then again, they managed the conservatives to keep the tees valley . ben houchen with

valley. ben houchen with a majority of 19,000, now a reduced majority. but a big majority nonetheless. so rishi sunak will take some comfort from that . he is holding this up from that. he is holding this up to say, look, you know, we are on the right track and in the last hour or so we have had this projected national share come through and that has put labour on 34, tories on 25, lib dems on 17 and others on 24. so this only has the conservatives nine points behind the labour party. now that's much, much smaller than most of the polling would suggest. that basically means that the two main parties are in like a holding position down from where they are a year ago now. of course , lots of caveats now. of course, lots of caveats apply. it's local elections. people vote differently in general elections, etc, etc. but

depending on where those votes fell , if it was replicated in depending on where those votes fell, if it was replicated in a general election and it's possible. sure, labour would get a majority, probably, but it might be quite a small one. it could possibly be a hung parliament, or it could be up to 100 seats. we just don't know. but what we do know is certainly plenty of people across with a government, but they're not necessarily 100% sold on labour because a lot of the votes that the conservatives are losing are going to reform or are going to lib dems, they're not all going labour's way by any means. >> and just i'm going to get into turnout in quite some detail a bit later on in the programme, but for now, just give us a vague indication, about what was happening with those turnout figures . those turnout figures. >> yes, they have been very low and of course, in local elections and by elections, that's usually the case. but in

the case of blackpool south, it was only something like 32.5. of course, voters in blackpool south know that they're going to have to go back to the polls to vote for a local mp this year. so it's only going to be a few months. but yeah, very, very low turnout pretty much across the board. and i think that really speaks to the fact that a lot of people feel that really none of the people on the ballot paper speak for them . i go out and speak for them. i go out and about around the country, and i'm really struck by how often people just say, well, i'm not going to vote because nothing changes. they're all the same, you know, they don't feel that anyone speaks for them. and one interesting thing, the london mayoralty sadiq khan 20 points aheadin mayoralty sadiq khan 20 points ahead in the polls, and it's been assumed to be pretty much a done deal for him. some figures out in the last hour or so, though, show that the voting turnout in the outer london boroughs is up at about 40. that's really quite high now , that's really quite high now, the outer london boroughs

affected by the ulez expansion . affected by the ulez expansion. and it may be that, you know, it's been widely assumed that sadiq khan is going to be mayor of london again , labour mayor of of london again, labour mayor of london. but it might be that susan hall is going to give him a much, much narrow lower run for his money than we were expecting. and if it's we don't know what's going to happen. they haven't even started counting the votes yet. but if she took london, that would be a monumental upset. but we probably won't find out till about this time tomorrow. >> or popcorn at the ready. thank you very much for that, catherine, many of you will remember when we're talking about ulez, and i'll play a clip for you a bit later. if you don't remember. i'll refresh your memory. don't worry, when sadiq khan, he was doing, like , sadiq khan, he was doing, like, a people's question time, and he was talking about the people that opposed, things like ulez. and i'm sure that you'll be able to remember the insult that he labelled those people as. and if you can't remember, it's two

words. one begins with f and one begins with r. i'll come to that in a little bit later on, the tories though, i mean, they were well predicted to get an absolute kicking. do you think it was as bad as people ? well, it was as bad as people? well, no. let me start again. you are a tory. what do you think to the outcome? >> well, i don't think there are two things today. first of all, we've got a lot of results still to come. yeah and that could be very, very interesting, but the second thing to say is that i don't think we've learned anything very much so far that we didn't actually know before. right, that labour is ahead and the tories are far behind now with the this the two numbers that mps will be thinking about, over the over the weekend . one over the over the weekend. one of them is this national vote share thing and i don't know how that's calculated and that's put the conservatives. it puts labour nine nine points ahead of the conservatives. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> the other is in blackpool's south. there was a swing against the conservatives of 26. >> there was indeed. >> there was indeed. >> so depending on what sort of

mp you are, you're going to be looking at your own seat and working out what your future is, depending either you're an optimistic guy or lady and you think that you're going to be a 9% person. you're a 9% person, or are you going to be a 26? >> yeah, but blackpool south was, a particularly i would say it was quite a niche set of circumstances, wasn't it , this circumstances, wasn't it, this was in case you're not familiar with this seat, this was scott benton. he was the fella. i mean, i laugh because it's just so absurd , but he was the so absurd, but he was the fellow. he was caught in that undercover sting. you'll perhaps remember those videos where they were pouring the teas and stuff, and he was basically, offering himself to potentially lobby, which obviously you're not allowed to do. and as we've just been discussing, there's going to be a general election soon anyway. so a lot of people would have just been doing whatever and this and that and the other knowing that it wasn't really going to stick for long because they're going to change it all soon anyway. >> yeah. and there will be mps saying, yeah, but there was a very special circumstances. 26% ho ho ho. that's never going to happen to me. and there are lots of mps saying that.

>> yeah. >> yeah. >> well did you and they might take your line and who knows they might be right. >> michelle. well, did you hear his, almost his first sentence, what he said in a nutshell, all labour are far ahead and the tories are further behind. >> he summarised it all. the show can finish, we can all go to the pub because that is pretty much the story. and as daniel says, it was pretty much expected, what we've seen, isn't it, from yesterday? >> well, the tories are in a death spiral and they deserve to be because they have, i think, betrayed millions of voters, working class voters who placed their faith in them for the first time. they've mismanaged the economy, they've mismanaged the economy, they've mismanaged the country, and they don't deserve the chance to govern again. as far as i'm concerned, this is, i think, probably the worst government in my lifetime. i think they've abandoned the people who voted for them, not just the conservative voters, but, as i say, working class labour voters who voted for them for the first time in 2019, who they promised you know, we're going to level up your communities. we're going to get growth in the economy. we're going to regenerate your

communities. we're going to rekindle, realise britain and give you good jobs, etc. and for those people, i think they realise that the tories just haven't delivered for them. that actually in many of those places, in terms of employment prospects, in terms of housing, in terms of education, in terms of the wages that people are currently earning, in terms of nhs waiting lists and stuff like that. i think most people in those places look at what's happenedin those places look at what's happened in the last five years and think, sorry, all of the promises that you made to us, you have completely let us down, and so i do, i think, defend yourself against that . i think yourself against that. i think they deserve to be annihilated. i mean, i'm not over egging it. i mean, i'm not over egging it. i think they deserve to be wiped out. they've been that bad. >> i mean, when he says they he means you, you guys, the tories. do you want to defend yourself against that or not? yeah. >> well, i just think that, you know, when we we've had very, very difficult circumstances. i do think things have been mishandled in some ways. boris had very difficult circumstances. his face in the first half of this government with covid, that nobody had expected. he had a genuine

commitment to levelling up. things did happen. covid cost us £400 billion. think what he could have. you could have done if somebody had said to boris, you can have £400 billion to spend on infrastructure. we didn't spend it on infrastructure. we spent it on on covid and that's what it cost us. and that money is that's hanging over at the economy still, and it will hang over the economy for quite a long time to come. whoever is in power and in 10 downing street. so you can land it all on the conservatives if you want. but when you when it gets to a labour government, it gets to a labour government, it looks like you might have a labour government. keir starmer, he's going to have exactly the same problems and exactly the same problems and exactly the same issues, and he will not be delivering on his promises if he ever makes any promises, because at this stage we still don't know what labour's policies are. they're doing very well in these elections. all credit to them. they're doing very well, but we actually don't know what they stand for. >> what the tories did is they took those traditional working class votes for granted. those leave voting areas, people who believe in that small c conservatism and patriotism,

communitarianism, they should have leaned into those voters. if i was a tory strategist, i would have said to them in 2019, you've got millions of these votes for the first time. the job of the party needs to be now to lean into those people and to make those people your focus, to make those people your focus, to make sure that you maintain those people's votes. and actually, if you look at the if you look at economic policy, if you look at economic policy, if you look at the fact that immigration numbers are just rising and rising to unsustainable levels, when so many of those people voted tory to keep immigration numbers down, which was obviously part of the brexit motivation as well , and coupled, i said with the, you know, the lack of investment in communities, the lack of real levelling up. i know you say it's taking place, daniel, but i don't think it has to any serious degree. and the average life, i think for the average working person in this country, is, is tough . and i think that, is, is tough. and i think that, yes, you had covid and, you know , you can't necessarily lay the blame for that at the government's door. although i think some of the decisions it

took, you know, later were disastrous, frankly, and have added to the economic problems that we're experiencing. but by and large, i think it has been, even if you set that aside, i think it has been five years of a failure to deliver. and actually, we are, as i've said on this program before, an undeveloped country. nothing works at the moment, undeveloped country. nothing works at the moment , whether works at the moment, whether it's in the public sector or whether it's in, you know , the whether it's in, you know, the private economy in terms of getting growth and so on. there's a sense of the last days of rome, and i think the party that's been in for 14 years has to take responsibility for that. >> i mean, you say the party that's been in the last 14 years, but of course, we've had coalitions. i've lost count of how many prime ministers we've had since then and how many different cabinets we've had since then. so saying it's the party that's been in power for 14 years, that's like, triggers broome from only fools and horses when it's changed his handle, it's changed his head. but yet he's still had the same broom for god knows how many years the tories between, you know, 20 to 2010 and 2017, whatever it was, 2015 was it

were the main coalition partner. the lib dems were the junior coalition partner for those first five years. and the tories have governed for the last decade or more so of course, they have to take responsibility very quickly. >> before i go to a break, to paups >> before i go to a break, to paul's point of them basically betraying those working class people that lent the vote, if they'd have kept boris as their leader. do you think that they would have? perhaps. in fact, i'm going to ask you this. you can ponder it during the break and we'll come back to it. so if the tories had have kept boris and not ousted him the way they did, do you think you'd have fared better with some of those working class people? you can ponder that. you can ponder it at home as well, if you want. and i'll return to that question. socialist van gough and his type or van gove. i'm going to pronounce it. and his type will make this country even more of a hole than it is already, he says. someone, on the website, keep your thoughts coming in because let's talk laboun coming in because let's talk labour. some of you are saying, are you going to

hello, everybody. welcome back to dewbs& co seven alongside me, the tory life peer. lord moylan. and the trade unionist and fireman paul embery, an avid labour supporter. i've also got to give you that title as well, i'm asking you because i want to talk about, turnout. i'm asking you, did you vote yesterday? and if not, why not, paul says i would have voted tory. he says, but they're just liars now. and he says there's no way out of this mess. you're a harsh man, paul this mess. you're a harsh man, paul, who's this? doug, said i, voted in hull. i was very disappointed. he says that there was no representation from reform uk. dale says i voted at every election since i was 18 years of age. i'm now 61 years young, but i didn't bother to vote yesterday . dale, i need the vote yesterday. dale, i need the details. why not? and what would have made you, turn out? was it, i don't know the lack of choice.

did you not feel that your vote would matter? i want the details, before the break, i asked you if you still had boris johnson. do you think the tories would have done better? or. and i know it's like saying if my aunt had wheel should be a bus, but if you had boris johnson, do you think you would have still. what are you laughing at? >> well, because if my aunt said we should be a bus. >> yeah, that's a saying. >> yeah, that's a saying. >> i didn't know that was a saying. >> you've never heard that saying. >> a great saying, and i'm going to use that repeatedly. >> have you heard that saying, i'm not going, madam, i have, but there's a ruder version of it as well. >> well, i won't go there. >> well, i won't go there. >> i know many rude versions of many things invented. mostly it's tea time, so we sit with the clean ones on here. anyway, every day is a school day. i've taught you a new saying. >> what do you think, saying that? >> yeah, absolutely. well, i still think i made it clear at the time. i still think it was bonkers of conservative mps to get rid of a proven winner. when we were 5% behind in the polls. and i think we'd have been doing a great deal better.

>> well, there you go. >> well, there you go. >> i think we would. >> i think we would. >> what do you think? >> what do you think? >> do you miss boris? do you think they made a mistake? i wonder if many people in the tory party do sit and kick themselves now and think, what on earth were we thinking? but let's talk those working classes, shall we? because i can't help but feel there is a little bit of a theme running through the labour party. let's just cast our mind back. does anyone remember this episode with gordon brown? >> good. and it's very nice to see you. take care. >> thanks, gordon. it's a disaster. >> what are everything? >> what are everything? >> she's just a bigoted woman . >> she's just a bigoted woman. >> she's just a bigoted woman. >> she's just a bigoted woman. >> she's a bigoted woman. that was gillian duffy. do you >> she's a bigoted woman. that was gillian duffy . do you know was gillian duffy. do you know what she did to be so bigoted? she had the audacity to talk about things like uncontrolled immigration and reference the changes to her local area . then changes to her local area. then do you remember this one, emily thornberry? this one? of course. this was when she was out campaigning. she had . well, she campaigning. she had. well, she took a picture of a white van and the england flag, the saint george flag, and she did, basically the scenes here, which

if you took my interpretation of it and many other people, it was some form of absolute mocking, i can tell you that, we mentioned this piece at the start of the programme. sadiq khan listen to what he, was referring to. >> what i find unacceptable, though, is some of those who've got legitimate objections joining hands with some of those outside who are part of a far right group, who are let's call, let's call a spade a spade. some of those outside are part of the far right summer. some are covid deniers , some are vaccine deniers, some are vaccine deniers, some are vaccine deniers and some are tories. >> shut up your pillow. >> shut up your pillow. >> maybe it's just that actually people don't want to be charged through the nose to drive their own cars, anyway, let's bring things up to current day, shall we? this is, of course, the wes streeting situation, and many people are complaining about this one. i had it on my screen

and now for some reason it's not going to play out. but worry not because i shall read it directly. instead, from my telephone, if you will just indulge me because where's streeting? and by the way, he's taken an awful lot of flak for this because he tweeted the following. are you ready? he said , a win for susan hall and said, a win for susan hall and the conservatives is a win for racists, white supremacists and islamophobes the world over. susan hall's campaign has been fought from the gutter with dangerous and divisive politics. london. we cannot let her win . london. we cannot let her win. vie sadiq. so paul mbappe, forgive me, but it seems to me that the people, the party they've got an issue with, the working class is indeed the labour party. >> i despair at stuff like that. i've been in the labour party for 30 years, michel, and i've been arguing with people in the party that, you know, we've got to stop giving this impression that we hate working class communities, that we hate their traditional values, that we hate their small c conservative ism. and there is a conservative small c thread that runs through many of these working class

communities. what some people kind of disparage hinckley called the three f's the faith, family and flag agenda, and the labour party did become, unfortunately, a party very much not under blair, but before blair. and then it accelerated under blair of the professional and managerial classes. it became very much a party of the middle class, the urban liberal, the graduate and so on. it was always traditionally that coalition between hampstead and hartlepool, but over the last 30 or 40 years the hartlepool element has been elbowed out and the hampstead element came to dominate. and what they did is they just assumed that the hartlepool's of this world wouldn't have anywhere else to 90, wouldn't have anywhere else to go, that they would always vote labour because they always had. and then obviously, i think brexit was a warning shot, that actually people are not going to do what you want them to do in these working class communities. in terms of the labour party. and then we saw the 2019 election, where so many of these communities voted tory for the first time. but what i would say

is for those of us inside the party, as i said, as i've been for 30 years and who lived in working class communities and who tried to look beyond the m25 in a way that so many in the party didn't, this was obvious , party didn't, this was obvious, this kind of schism that emerged between the party and the working class was obvious. and actually, there is that contempt. i have to say that there is. when you see the gillian duffy thing and you talk about the emily thornberry flag incident , you know, i go to incident, you know, i go to conferences and i go to trade union meetings, and i know senior people within the movement, and there is that kind of private contempt, really, for those what they see as those reactionary , reactionary, reactionary, reactionary, working class views. and every now and then the mask slips. and we've just seen some of those examples where the mask does slip. starmer has tried to rectify that, and he's tried to sort of say, look, we need to we need we need to wire into the working class and their instinctive, you know, impulses of patriotism and, you know, not not appear so much as a kind of

radical progressive. but the party, large parts of it are uncomfortable with that. and don't want to go with him on some of that stuff. >> i remember , it was probably >> i remember, it was probably about, i don't know, maybe two weeks ago, and i cannot remember now. keen viewers who saw the episode might remember, but there was a labour person sitting where you're sitting, actually, and i brought this gordon brown and this gillian duffy. duffy thing up. and he said to me, oh , michelle, why said to me, oh, michelle, why are you banging on about this? it was years ago. lives moved on, the party's moved on. and i was saying to him, because i feel a sense that actually that has not moved anywhere. this theme, this undercurrent, to paups theme, this undercurrent, to paul's point, it theme, this undercurrent, to paul's point , it is theme, this undercurrent, to paul's point, it is still there. and that wes streeting, tweet it or the x, which clearly is very proud of because it's still there. it's still very much alive. he hasn't taken it down, he hasn't thought better of it. and i think it's pretty damn disgraceful. and we can argue about what your party could have done better. but do you think that within your party there is that within your party there is that sense of kind of dismissiveness towards what i would just call like normal

people ? people? >> well, no, i don't think so. i mean, i think one interesting, first of all, this guy who's won blackpool south. yeah, i think i'm correct in saying that he's never worked for anybody since university except the labour party. he's worked in the he's worked in the charity sector, but he's he was a parliamentary assistant to a previous . assistant to a previous. >> and didn't he lose in 2017 and 2019. >> and he's been a deputy police police and fire commissioner as well. >> you know this is the professionalisation of politics in both parties . that's true is in both parties. that's true is really, really detrimental because people they leave university and they go off and they become baby politicians and then they carry on as major politicians. they get elected as something they never have any real world. they live in this terribly tiny bubble. and i think that's really, really dangerous thing. second thing to say about labour party is they're riding high at the moment and credit to them for that. i don't begrudge people. i want to congratulate everyone who's standing in the election because it's a public service that they're standing in elections winners and losers, and they all deserve our thanks

for doing that. but the labour party is riding high at the moment. but when you look at what's actually happening , their what's actually happening, their coalition is crumbling in every direction. so you're seeing left wing voters. see, greens are doing very well on the basis of what i suspect a left wing labour voters defecting to the greens in places like bristol. we've got a lot of very left wing place, bristol, a lot of students, all of that . the students, all of that. the muslim vote they've depended on and taken for granted for so long. clearly oldham is a sign of what's happening there. and you've got mandelson behind the scenes. mandelson of all people from the 1990s behind the scene , from the 1990s behind the scene, as far as i can tell, pulling the strings and running the show and recreated thing. keir starmer as a new labour icon. i mean, what what is labour's future if they do get into power with, you know, they'll a great swing of power, but how will they sustain that on a narrowing base with policies that look back to the past and not engaging with the issues that i think paul is correctly

identifying how do you have a coalition that actually appeals broadly to people in this country? step one, you have to recognise what people in this country actually think . country actually think. >> the lack of pride. i was just going to say the lack of private sector experience amongst labour candidates and mps is a huge achilles heel for labour. most people in this country work in the private sector. a minority work in the public sector. if you look at labour candidates and there was a the data for the 100 most winnable seats that came out recently, labour candidates in the 100 most winnable seats, a majority, a clear majority worked either in the public sector or the charity sector . the not for profit sector. the not for profit sector. the not for profit sector. only a minority have worked in the private sector, but of those who did work in the private sector, they tended to be lawyers, pr people. very few have worked in a factory or an office and that is a real problem because it means you don't have a real view of the world. >> let me ask you about this, because it's been widely reported that apparently senior sources in the labour party have said the following, in conversation about the west

midlands, that contest there, talking about andy street, we have beaten him as a general rule , but the muslim vote has rule, but the muslim vote has collapsed. so the galloway backed independent, apparently a labour source said it's the middle east, not west midlands, that will have one street. the mayor. i can never say this. mayor. i can never say this. mayor. yeah. mayor. yeah i can't say. you know what i mean, once again, hamas are the real villains. what do you think to that? >> well, i think that's stupid. i mean, it's a source. so whether or not it's genuine, let's assume it's genuine. if it is, then it's stupid, because i think actually there is genuine concern out there, not just in muslim communities, although obviously within those communities about what's happening in gaza and particularly about starmer's comments. i mean, okay, he's called for a ceasefire now, but if you remember his comments at the beginning of this round of the beginning of this round of the conflict where he said that yes, he thought it was acceptable for israel to starve gazans of fuel and water and

electricity and so on. >> so remember that. >> so remember that. >> i mean , on one level, on >> i mean, on one level, on a purely human moral level, i thought that was an appalling thing to say, and on another level, in terms of tactically, it was a stupid thing to say. so. so i think there are i think on the one hand, we have to be careful about the rise of communal politics in our country. that is an issue. and we need to have an eye on it. there's a lot of it about, but at the same time, i think when you look at what's happening in gaza, i think there is genuine concern for muslims and non—muslims alike. and starmer has not helped the party on that. >> and do you think international affairs have, played out in some of this? do you think? >> i, i don't think international affairs in general, but i do think that, a lot of people are activated by energised by the situation on every side, on both sides are energised by the situation varne going on at the moment in, in israel, palestine , gaza. and israel, palestine, gaza. and thatis israel, palestine, gaza. and that is having an effect because they're now thinking of their local, british politicians here in terms of their stance on

those, on those topics and, and starmer, you know, labour, are, are losing him. >> there you go, david says when the tories got rid of boris johnson, they opened pandora's box. and now all they've got left in that box is hope. there you go, gary says i've been much better off under the tories than i was under the last labour government. he says, you know what i did? i retired ten years early. congratulations to you. many people , though, might not many people, though, might not feel quite so well off. let's talk the reform party then, shall we, after the break. did you vote for them? what do you think to their performance as well as expected or not? i'll talk

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside with the conservative life peer lord moylan. and the trade

unionist and fireman paul embery , let's talk the reform party then, shall we? they got almost 17% of the votes in blackpool south. i think there was something like only 117 votes between them and the tory party. there's been a lot of noise, about the reform party. tell me, just briefly in a second, i'm going to speak to ann widdecombe. but before i do that, lord moylan, how do you think the reform party fared? >> well in blackpool south? their performance was quite terrifying, i think, for a lot of conservative mps, because they came right in behind the party, behind the conservative party. and of course, there's the danger that you could see tory mps lose their seats because of reform , taking votes because of reform, taking votes away from them in significant numbers. and it does raise the question, you know, would they take larger numbers if nigel farage was actively campaigning at their head? well, i do not know the answer. it's not for me to talk about one of your colleagues and maybe inappropriate , but that's the inappropriate, but that's the that's the question to ask. >> it's the million dollar

question in the country. >> they haven't made such an impact. >> it's fair to say it is the million dollar question. and i know that's something that a lot of you guys ponder at home as well. i'm joined now by the former government minister and reform uk member ann widdecombe. good evening to you, ann. give me your reaction. how well do you think reform did in the election results that we know of so far ? so far? >> i thought it was absolutely terrific. i mean, first of all, to have come within a 117 votes of overtaking the tories in blackpool south was tremendous. and what i always point out is this, you know, this time last year we were getting 5 or 6, then we had kingswood and wellingborough and we got 10 or 13. we doubled , and then, last 13. we doubled, and then, last night, just shy of 17. so the trajectory is up now. you know, you ask yourself, is that trajectory also up in local elections, which, we haven't focused on to the same extent that we're focusing on trying to

change the government. and the answer is yes. i mean, in 2021, we were at 3.7, 22.5, 23.7. and then last night 11.8. so whichever way you look at it, the trajectory is up , and, we're the trajectory is up, and, we're on our way, and i do believe, along with richard tice, that we will be able to overtake the tories. i'm not going to do it tomorrow morning, but we will be able to overtake the tories. and at that point, we become the opposition. now, michelle, a very briefly, i have to go back to the hugely interesting discussion that you've just had with your two panellists about labourin with your two panellists about labour in the working class, i think exactly the same thing appues think exactly the same thing applies to the conservatives, because the caricature of the conservatives, when i was a young candidate in the 70s was that we were all xenophobic hangers and it wasn't true, but it was a caricature and because we were interested in things like crime and immigration, we

did appeal, to small c conservatives, if you like. and certainly i was fighting burnley in lancashire, very working class area, and, we have the labour vote, and so that also disappeared. it was there, with william hague, but it disappeared completely with david cameron, and it was overtaken by, if you like, what is called the hampstead liberals , so i think actually both parties have got the same problem. they've got a disconnect with ordinary working people , which reform is tapping into. >> but i'll tell you, one of the things that's also seemingly on the rise and that is the amount of people that are staying at home and not bothering, now, i talk to a lot of people every single day, and a lot of people are disenfranchised and disconnected. they don't feel like their vote is going to make a difference. and to me, when i listen to them and the things that they're wanting, the reform party would, in my mind, be a natural choice for them. but for

some reason you're not seeming in my mind anyway, to have a strong enough, ability to get those people off the couch and to those, polling stations . why? to those, polling stations. why? >> well, as i've said to you, the trajectory is up. we are gradually doing that. we were never going to do it in five minutes. rome wasn't built in a day, but i think your analysis is right, we do concern ourselves principally with the things that are concerning, ordinary people, like crime, immigration, taxes, etc, and that message is gradually getting across, which is why, as i've said, the trajectory is so strongly up now, it wouldn't be if we weren't getting the message across. but as i said, we're not going to do it by tomorrow morning. but oh, we're certainly doing it. >> and, one of my guests here, lord moylan, was just asking about nigel farage. you've got any indication yet about whether or not he's going to be more connected with the party? >> i'm sure you'll know that before i do, because the media always does, of course. nigel is already the honorary president of reform. he supports reform, whether he would play a more

active role is entirely within his own decision, and i can't take it for him. >> well, there you go. widdecombe thank you very much for your time and your insight for your time and your insight for me, this key point, paul, and we're going to revisit this , and we're going to revisit this, after the break is how on earth, do we get the point where we can make all of you guys at home that did not vote? how do we get you? what is it? what possibly is it? because i know lots of you are getting in touch and telling me that you didn't vote. you're missing the second part of my question. what would make you vote? dup tavern is going to open up after the break. we're going to chew that over. but also i'm

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, the conservative life peer lord moylan and trade unionist fireman. and the man that you're

all calling vincent van gogh, paul embery. everyone seems to have that nickname for you tonight, one of my guests, simon says van gogh sounds like he's right wing and sensible. he sounds to me like he'd be more at home in the reform party. >> no chance. >> no chance. >> why not? >> why not? >> not a chance. why because they're not the answer for working class people. it's essentially just run you through why labour are not either. >> yeah, but it's the reform is the thatcherite party and we're still in this country at the moment, still experiencing the legacy of the thatcher decade in the 80s in terms of working class, has voted in terms some of them did. >> but in terms of deindustrialisation, in terms of the increase in the gap between rich and poor, in terms of ripping up the social fabric of our country, god forbid we ever go back to a thatcherite ideology and agenda in this country, which i think reform. i agree with it on some things , agree with it on some things, especially on its anti—woke stance, but i think reform would take us back there, and i don't think that would be the answer for working people, james said.

it's everybody i don't know why it's everybody i don't know why ilaugh it's everybody i don't know why i laugh at these because i like solutions to problems, james says it's everybody's duty to vote. so here's james, solution. you could add a 1% increase in tax for all of those people who don't vote, or if they don't pay tax and they're on benefits, you could reduce their benefits. how would you administer? i don't want to pooh—pooh your idea, james, but how would you even begin to administer that? let's just remind you about something that we spoke about at the top of the program, because there's lots and lots of calls, isn't there for a general election. so let's just remind ourselves if there was to be a general election, let's just say tomorrow, and everyone voted the same way that they have done, at the elections yesterday , the the elections yesterday, the projected national share. so i.e basically what it would look like in a general election, it would be the following labour party would be on 34, the tories would be on 25, the lib dems 17% would be on 25, the lib dems17% and others on 24. that surprises me really. but i maintain it's

because a lot of people that i think would potentially averted reform, they're just not coming out and voting. >> and i don't know why people who potentially would have voted conservative are probably not coming out and voting. i think i think most analysts accept that. well, one of the problems conservatives have is that the voters and their voters are not turning out, they're not necessarily switching over to labour or other parties, but a lot of them are probably staying at home. and i think that's one of the issues i've always thought. i mean, i in the last year or so, i've thought that an election before the summer, there's a strong case, and it's a bit heretical in the conservative party, but there is a strong case for an election before the summer. in any event, irrespective of these results, i don't see things getting necessarily much better for the government . the attempts at government. the attempts at resets haven't particularly worked . worked. >> but why? if i was rishi sunak, there's no way i would go to a general election early. why would i, to appease everybody else or to give everyone else

the best opportunity? i would keep hold of that power and do everything that i possibly could to try and turn things around using the longest runway i possibly had. why on earth would i go now? >> that hasn't worked. >> that hasn't worked. >> that hasn't worked. >> that strategy hasn't worked. i'll keep going. >> if you've got a few more months in your year, that strategy hasn't worked well. >> it's on. »- >> it's on. >> you're quite defeatist, daniel. >> it's not defeatist. i think, you know, i'm just saying, i think you probably get better results now than you might later in the year. that's the judgement you've got to make. so are you saying, you know it'll get better? it might get better. >> but if you had fear, if you had faith in your party. >> so if i was a tory faith in my party, but if i had faith that actually they're going to a religious commitment in some sense. >> yeah, but the count, the numbers, i mean, the first thing you've got to do in democratic politics, you've got to know how to count. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and i count count. although once you get past ten, i struggle, i admit, but, but surely, i mean, am i just surely, i mean, am ijust deluded because i think if i was rishi, there's no way you'd have to wrestle this power out of my mitts. i wouldn't be giving it overit mitts. i wouldn't be giving it over it prematurely for anybody.

>> vie it would put to bed. and daniel and i were talking about this before the show. it would put to bed the kind of leadership question, wouldn't it, if he's worried about at some point in the summer or the autumn, mps trying to dislodge him and then having the bloodbath of a leadership election , he could call their election, he could call their bluff by essentially saying, well, i'm going to go to the country sooner rather than later. so it puts that to bed. and then i suspect they know the writing's on the wall. i suspect they know whatever happens, whether it's in the summer or the winter, they're going to get hammered. so from his own personal point of view and his leadership security, that seems to me to be the only reason why he would go in the summer, raj says, no, i didn't go out and vote. there's no one to vote for. i've got no faith in any of them. lots of people are suggesting they didn't vote now, but if they had a proportional representation system, which made them feel that their vote was perhaps more valued then that would maybe have got you out. lots of you are also saying you didn't have a reform vote in your a reform candidate, sorry, in your area. so that's one of

the reasons that kept you at home. and by the way, i'm ever so sorry i'm so rude. i forgot jubilee tavern was open. i forgot to raise a glass and say cheers and happy friday to everyone. so i'll do it now, belatedly. have a wonderful weekend, everybody. but don't go anywhere. tom harwood up next and i'll see you monday night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. a mixed may day bank holiday weekend. some places having warm sunshine , but there will be sunshine, but there will be a fair few showers around as well. had a real mixed picture today. cracking day in western scotland. dull and damp over the central areas, the rain here slowly edging northwards. clearer skies in the south could allow it to turn quite chilly actually. may not be far off. freezing in some rural parts of the south, whereas the cloud and the south, whereas the cloud and the rain over northern england southern scotland, northern ireland will keep the

temperatures up in double digits here. it does make for a pretty dismal start to the long weekend. a lot of cloud and rain and drizzle on and off through the day. northeast england may well brighten up a much brighter day tomorrow for the midlands , day tomorrow for the midlands, east anglia and many southern counties of england and wales. fine tomorrow with some sunny spells and again the west coast of scotland doing okay for sunshine. not quite as warm as today, but 1718 likely here. cool on some of these north sea coasts , particularly the far coasts, particularly the far north—east where it stays fairly murky. that's going to be an issue, i think, on sunday as well. mist and low cloud around the coast in the north—east could be some heavy showers developing through the day over central and eastern scotland, but again, many areas fine on sunday, some spells of sunshine increasing chance of seeing cloud and showers coming up from the south, but with a bit of sunshine, temperatures getting into the high teens once more , into the high teens once more, that'll feel pretty pleasant. so a brighter day on sunday. certainly across northern england. we'll keep that mixture of some places staying fine and sunny on monday, but it will still be some showers around . still be some showers around. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of

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i >> -- >> it's -_ >> it's 7:00. time to take stock of where we are. with the sensational results and indeed, rumours of what's yet to come. we'll be talking through. it's all the local elections 2024. the labour gains with shadow minister steve mccabe, the conservative losses with tory minister steve baker and perhaps some of those tory klingons . but some of those tory klingons. but also in the next hour you'll hear from reaction from nigel farage. might reform have underperformed tonight, but also george galloway will be here to talk through his candidates, particularly in rochdale. all that to come and more with

experts , psephologists and those