made its over whether britain made its wealth from slavery may have been decisively settled , as been decisively settled, as a new report claims. slavery may have even made britain poorer. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most pugnacious panel this evening. former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop . as you broadcaster tessa dunlop. as you know, as always, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's what you've all been waiting for. the news bulletin with ray addison. >> thanks, jacob. good evening. our top stories tonight. the government looks set to face more legal challenges over its rwanda plan. after detaining the first group of migrants to be deported, both men and women have been taken into custody in

a series of operations across the country. officials won't confirm how many people have been detained or where they were taken into custody. so far , the taken into custody. so far, the fda trade union, which represents senior civil servants, is threatening legal action over the plan . well, action over the plan. well, meanwhile, gb news can reveal that more than 1700 small boat migrants have crossed the engush migrants have crossed the english channel in just over a week. early this morning, a boatload of around 70 people was taken to dover harbour by lifeboat. in total, around 400 people have been taken to the border force. migrant processing centre. today, the 14 year old boy killed in a sword attack in north—east london yesterday has been named as daniel anderson. the met police says a 36 year old man remains in custody on suspicion of the teenager's murder. daniel was a pupil at bancroft's same school in east london, attended by grace o'malley kumar , who was murdered o'malley kumar, who was murdered in a knife attack in nottingham last summer .

in a knife attack in nottingham last summer. four other people were injured during yesterday's attack . police believe a piece attack. police believe a piece of glass may have been used as a weapon during an incident at a school in sheffield, a 17 year old boy has been arrested for attempted murder after three people were hurt at the birley academy this morning . police academy this morning. police have praised the actions of school staff during what they're calling a frightening ordeal. scotland's snp government has survived a confidence vote at the scottish parliament. the leader of scottish labour, anas sarwar , tabled the motion after sarwar, tabled the motion after a power sharing deal between the snp and the greens collapsed. the motion was defeated by 70 votes to 58. meanwhile, two msps thought to be considering running to replace scotland's first minister have held private talks. john swinney and kate forbes met at holyrood yesterday. both have received support from senior members of their party after humza yousaf announced that he was stepping down. the meeting has been

described as informal, with both politicians still weighing up their options. and finally , their options. and finally, vickers occupied the labour party headquarters earlier to protest against an oilfield field licence . five members of field licence. five members of the christian climate action group took over the lobby of the building in central london. they then held a church service to protest against labour's refusal to cancel the rosebank oil field licence. 20 others protested outside. police responded to the scene. for the latest stories sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common shirts back now to . jacob. shirts back now to. jacob. >> welcome back to state of the nafion >> welcome back to state of the nation . 21st century britain has nation. 21st century britain has become obsessed with diversity, eqtu become obsessed with diversity, equity and inclusion. seems that just about everything nowadays amounts to protected characteristic. every week we hear of another reason why the left is outraged about the

treatment of a religious ethnic or sexual minority. there's one group to whom the most vile abuse is completely acceptable in the eyes of the british commentariat. christians senior writer for the times, kenny farquharson, has written a vicious and nasty piece about prospective snp leader candidate kate forbes. mr farquharson opens saying kate forbes is unfit to be first minister of a 21st century scotland. a 1920s scotland may be and 1950s scotland may be and 1950s scotland perhaps, but not scotland. in 2024. he goes to on say, revealing his ugly bigotry, what a message would kate forbes send first ministership.7 send that single mothers are sinners, that single mothers are sinners, that sex outside marriage is wrong , that ghouls should be wrong, that ghouls should be allowed to stand in the street outside abortion clinics muttering incantations that most of us in secular scotland are going to hell. well, mrs. forbes has never tried to enforce her religious views on others, and she is not aiming to turn scotland into a theocracy. she is a devout christian and puts

her faith into practice in her private life . ferguson is private life. ferguson is clearly very ignorant about christianity, which is a faith of forgiveness, not of condemnation. christ when asked by saint peter how many times you should forgive, replied , i you should forgive, replied, i say not unto thee until seven times, but until 70 times seven, meaning basically an infinite number of times. kate forbes will know as a christian that we are all sinners. the only words said out loud in the canon of the old right mast nobis quoque peccatoribus. but that god is ever merciful. her beliefs are not dissimilar from those of many devout muslims, but farquharson, being a muslim is worthy while being a devout christian is wrong. this is the bigotry of the new left. freedom to agree with our fashionable nostrums, but not to hold fast your own beliefs. the rottenness, the viciousness and sheer nastiness of his column is in his desire to root out people from public life, purge people from public life, purge people from public life who do not share his sad secularist world

view . he should be share his sad secularist world view. he should be ashamed of himself and learn from his fellow times columnist matthew parris, who was remarkably generous to kate forbes. in his article also published in the times today. fortunately for farquharson, the loving and merciful lord and the christian kate forbes will probably forgive him and we can all pray forgive him and we can all pray for him to become a nicer person as ever. let me know your thoughts. mail margaret gbnews.com. well, i'm joined now by a veteran human rights campaigner, peter tatchell. peter, thank you so much for coming in. you're always a great defender of free speech. so i would have thought that you would have thought that you would defend kate forbes right, to hold her views. absolutely >> you know, i may not agree with her point of view , but she with her point of view, but she and other people of faith have a right to hold those views . the right to hold those views. the question is not whether she should hold the views, but whether she is a fit and proper person to be first minister. now she does hold some quite extreme views which are not shared by

many christians in scotland. so she opposes gay marriage, trans rights, abortion and is very critical of parents who have children outside of marriage. now that's very insulting to millions of scottish people. >> it's a view that is the orthodox view of the catholic church. i know kate forbes is not a catholic, which has a billion adherents across the world. it's not a tiny minority of christians who hold this view pretty mainstream, but i think in britain and in scotland, that is not the majority view of most christians . christians. >> most christians have embraced a more compassionate, loving interpretation of scripture to love thy neighbour as the scriptures say. >> and i think we need to ask ourselves, well, hold on, none of what you've said about her views mean that you don't love your neighbour. it's a recognition, as i quoted, that we are all sinners and that we are all in need of god's forgiveness. it's no good saying , 0h, forgiveness. it's no good saying , oh, it's not sin. it's saying, yes, we all do things wrong and therefore we all need forgiveness. and that's a very traditional and loving view of

christianity. >> well, that may be, but, you know, to have someone holding those views in a position of first minister of scotland, the highest elected office in the country , i think that would send country, i think that would send a very bad signal to millions of scottish people who do not share those views. and i would ask you to consider this if she had expressed similar views about black people that would have been condemned outright as racism, she would not be entertained. >> that's actually what i'm saying about ferguson, that if he said these views about anybody else, if you said these views about muslims, that because they hold these views and these are very traditional muslim views too, there would have been absolute outrage. the times would not have published it. well i agree, kate forbes is entirely justified and legitimate in holding those views. >> the question is whether such a person should be chief minister, first minister of scotland, but she's not trying to make these views. >> the law, these are her views. this is how she believes she will save her own soul. and she's not trying to make that the law of the land in scotland. well, we will see how she

behaves in future. >> but yes, maybe that's the case. the important thing is to have someone holding those views as the head of scotland and in charge of scotland, the first minister, that sends the wrong signal . we want someone. i think signal. we want someone. i think most scottish people want someone in that position who is open and kind and accepts equal rights for all people. >> but fundamental to christian teaching is the equal value of all souls. that everybody is of value to and loved by god. that doesn't mean every action they take is right. >> well, that is true. but again, i draw the analogy with racism. you know, we would not tolerate someone as first minister of scotland who held racist views. even if they held them privately, we would say that person is not fit and proper to be first minister. >> racism is completely different from the views of the christian churches throughout the ages. that that's saying that somebody, because they have a particular colour skin or come from a particular origin is not

as equal under the law as anybody else. and that is entirely different from saying that if people don't go to church on sunday, they're committing a sin. >> i think the analogy is if someone said that a black person did not deserve equal rights, we would condemn that as racist. what kate forbes is saying is that, in her view, gay people and single parents, she's not saying they don't deserve equal. >> she's not saying they don't deserve equal rights. she's never said that. >> well, she's saying she she opposes the rights of gay people to marry the person they love. >> she, she she believes, which is what everybody believed until a few years ago, that marriage is between a man and a woman . is between a man and a woman. that's not an outlandish view to hold, but she's accepted that the law has changed and isn't seeking to change it. >> well, that may be the case, but the point is , she holds that but the point is, she holds that view, and to have the person with greatest political power in scotland to hold that view symbolically, that sends the

wrong message. it's not. >> i just don't see why it does. because this is a view that is held still by many millions of people in this country. it's not an unreasonable view to believe that marriage is a sacrament ordained by god between a man and a woman. the state can make whatever legal arrangements it likes, but marriage is something fundamentally different. >> well, as i said, kate forbes is entitled to her view. i'll defend her right to hold it . i defend her right to hold it. i just don't think she's the right person to be first minister saying that anybody who is a traditional christian is excluded from high office. well, i'm saying that someone who doesn't accept equality, but she's human rights. >> equality. she's not denying equality of people before the law. she just doesn't believe in some things you believe in. and she has a concept of sin that is the traditional christian concept and muslim concept and jewish concept of sin. >> well, i said that may well be the case, and she's not trying to enforce it on other people . to enforce it on other people. >> i don't really understand why you want to stop somebody holding private beliefs about the salvation of their own soul

that they're not enforcing on people? >> well, it's not my position to stop. kate forbes. that's up to the members of the scottish national party and the people of scotland. but as a human rights defender, i'm saying that it's a very bad look to have people holding high political office who do not believe in equality for everyone and fi harrison to go back to him is very pleased that there was a muslim leader in scotland, but the muslim faith has much tougher views, almost these matters than the christian faith. well, again . christian faith. well, again. that may well be the case, but so would you rule out a muslim as well? well, it depends on their views. a traditional muslim, if they hold, would you rule out a traditional muslim if they held views against the rights of women and lgbt plus people? yes i would okay, that's not acceptable. we have to have the leaders of our country, including in scotland, people who believe in the principle of equality for all and who reflect that in their own personal views. they are symbols of the nation. and for scotland to have

a leader of the nation, a symbol of the nation, who doesn't believe that loving heterosexual couples who have children but are not married, she thinks they are not married, she thinks they are unfit. she thinks that's she doesn't think she thinks it's unrwa. >> she thinks she hasn't said anything of the kind . anything of the kind. >> i retract that she thinks she thinks she thinks it's wrong . thinks she thinks it's wrong. she thinks it's wrong. >> we're going to have finished with that retraction. so thank you. peter. coming up, should sir keir starmer be investigated by bbc verify for spreading misinformation? plus we may now have solved the debate over whether slavery was caused behind britain's wealth

well, we've been talking about the really nasty piece in the times. attacking kate forbes for her christian views. and the mail mogs have been coming in on the feast of saint joseph. the workman george says the eradication of christianity has been the end play for many years

by the hard left and others. and leakey says i think scotland wants a first minister who can actually do the job regardless of their religion. those in glass houses should not throw stones, and it seems the leader of the opposition may have just shattered his islington conservatory have a look at this clip from a labour party campaign video, shared online by the great leader of the party himself . himself. >> the main thing that really made me change my mind was i was watching the duke of edinburgh's funeral on the television and there was the queen sitting all on her own. no family , no on her own. no family, no friends. and then later i found out that at the same time, boris johnson and his friends were partying in downing street , johnson and his friends were partying in downing street, and that was just in my opinion, was was just unacceptable . was just unacceptable. >> well, i'm afraid whether it's unacceptable or not, that was simply a lie. that gent was not

telling you the truth. it was a lie being spread by the labour party. borisjohnson lie being spread by the labour party. boris johnson did not attend a so—called lockdown party during the late duke of edinburgh's funeral in number 10, downing street, because it's well documented that he was in fact at chequers at the time. it's quite difficult to bilocate padre pio believed, i believe managed it, but other than great saints, it's a rare attribute. but when it's the left who always go on about the need to crackdown on the spread of misinformation, will they be consistent and challenge those in their own ranks? will we see bbc verify publish a lengthy feature on this matter? my breath is bated. well, i'm joined now by my pugnacious panel joined now by my pugnacious panel, former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop. tessa la la pants on fire to, keir starmer and his crew today . crew today. >> gosh, do you think that they're following the lead of bofis they're following the lead of boris johnson where angels fear to tread, who i believe lost his seat and his political career because he lied to parliament? i think you are, however , jacob,

think you are, however, jacob, by the way, good evening. being something of a pedant. by the way, good evening. being something of a pedant . clearly something of a pedant. clearly the precedent had been set, led by the blonde bombshell not me, but boris johnson in downing street. consistent parties throughout the year before it's not true. by april it is. i just looked up the dates throughout december. i mean, there were so many christmas parties. i'm surprised anybody got . surprised anybody got. >> boris was not at parties. the only thing that he was criticised for was having a slice of cake on his birthday. dan slice of cake on his birthday. drink that was brought to him. he didn't have anything to drink. >> the precedent was set, wasn't it? no. the problem is, yes, we all know that if something dodgy goes on in the home office, the head of state resigns. the head of the home ofsted should know the. you know the king, know the head. >> don't deport somebody and the king abdicates. come on. tesla's getting a bit confused. kelvin. do you want her proud? >> well, the two issues. first of all, i hadn't seen this before tonight. so where did it actually go? out did it go out on television? >> it's on a labour propaganda video. >> a labour propaganda, and it's been retweeted by i see, so it was labour propaganda . was labour propaganda. >> so it didn't have to go through the asa at all. >> wouldn't have thought so. no. >> wouldn't have thought so. no. >> right. >> right. >> so political adverts don't

actually they're exempt if i understand it correctly. >> oh is that right? i think so. oh right. i didn't know that. right. so at the end, at the end of the day, how many people would see this who were not already socialists. do you see what i mean. >> not more because we've broadcast. >> yes. well that's the problem, isn't it? you've given it the oxygen of publicity. i wouldn't have bothered if i were you. but having having said that, if it's untrue, what chance do you think, tesla, you're a great supporter of socialism. what chance do you think of starmer apologising? >> i think that everyone watching that video understood that the man in question, who incidentally, is a carer so was on the coalface of suffering dunng on the coalface of suffering during the coronavirus and understood the importance of actually obeying the rules that bofis actually obeying the rules that boris johnson's administration introduced. i think we understand that the point he makes is the mood music set by the queen was not being enacted, and respected by downing street by the executive, which boris johnson led. you're dancing on piano. >> no i'm not, you're being. you're being very charitable that this was a straightforward

lie . the man was miles away at lie. the man was miles away at that point . and, you know, we that point. and, you know, we all make mistakes and we say things that turn out not to be as accurate as we would have liked. that happens on television. it happens in history books. of course it does, he said. that was a straightforward lie, he said. >> at the same time, you could interpret that in the same period, the period of lockdowns. i mean, he's not a journalist. that man. he's a carer. he's a he's a real person. he's not an oil skinned spiv sitting at a television station. >> so if that was the case, why did they use him? they used him because they thought they would get the maximum emotion out of a very were an appalling time for everybody. right? i don't think, by the way , that boris covered by the way, that boris covered himself in glory in that period. i you know, i recognise that he was cleared of most of the stuff, but most ordinary people. right. like that carer like me, like you, i suspect. and like you, jacob actually stuck by the rules. now he decides to

actually manoeuvre his way through the rules. so he's he does deserve the custard pie on this. but that is not true. they would have known it wasn't true. and why did they bother ? they and why did they bother? they bothered because actually only socialists are going to watch it and they've already decided which way they're going to vote. >> the responsibility is on laboun >> the responsibility is on labour, not on the gentlemen. he's. come on, he's said something . but labour has now something. but labour has now humiliated him by allowing it to be seen by thousands of people when he's got something wrong . when he's got something wrong. i'm not attacking him. i think he, in all innocence, believed this. but if he was in the papers at the time. >> but labour should queen photograph with the mask on her own, and the idea of boris's parties? >> if you much later came much later, but the labour party ought to have some due diligence. it's the labour party that's responsible for the lie. not that, old chap. >> what i think is the biggest misjudgement here this evening is that you think by showing this you're going to score a win for the conservatives and not the labour, and all you're doing is reminding us of the appalling behaviour that went on at number 10 at this time. i don't think

that's right. >> we're trying to persuade the labour party to be honest. when it talks to the british people , it talks to the british people, improved standards, we've got clarity that it was a carer . we clarity that it was a carer. we can move on to another favourite subject because today the business secretary, kemi badenoch, went through all the successes of brexit and they include that the uk has become the fourth largest exporter in the fourth largest exporter in the world, surpassing france, japan and netherlands. since brexit. we've outgrown germany, italy and japan. exports are 2% above 2018 levels. inflation adjusted service exports an all time high manufacturing productivity has grown more than in germany, italy, france and the united states , and shell and the united states, and shell and unilever have moved their headquarters to london from the netherlands. well, back to my panel netherlands. well, back to my panel. this is i'm really impressed that kemi badenoch is actually sounding the trumpet for some good news from brexit, when there seems to be an unwillingness to do this from the government. yes, it's good news that she's putting her best foot forward. >> she's putting our best foot forward and as likely as not to

be the next leader of the conservative party, depending on what happens on november the 14th, which i think we can be pretty sure about what's likely to happen then. so i admire her for saying it. and the trouble with our country is we are in a pessimistic mode at the moment. we have an election coming up. the interest rates are uncomfortable for the for the middle classes and for everybody else. and actually, i've just beenin else. and actually, i've just been in spain for the weekend where there was an even under socialism, by the way, there was a, there was an atmosphere of optimism which does not exist here. so to tell stories like that and to get them covered, i think is great. and i wish her every success. every success. >> every success. >> and it's one of the great things. on calvin's point about optimism that if you go to america, people are always optimistic about america , optimistic about america, whereas here there's always this bit of managing decline, which is faintly depressing. >> yeah, well, you've done a great job of managing decline , great job of managing decline, you conservatives, since 2010,

so forgive me if we've all stepped in behind you and followed sukh managing decline is can we just clarify? that's kemi badenoch? yes. she cited shell and unilever as returning their headquarters to london. well, that's good because there's plenty of space. 440 firms in banking and finance have either moved out of london totally or at least part moving their legal, administrative or staffing onto the continent. >> moving is completely irrelevant. people have opened two firms versus 400 people. >> we need firms like unilever and shell . and shell. >> might i suggest that kemi badenoch got out her pen and filled up her postage stamp with positivities, because she knew that right now, this week, with the post brexit checks that have just been introduced, those are nothing to do with brexit. >> they are a decision by a mad decision by the government, but they didn't have to do them. they have chosen to do them. they've done them but they're not. they're not a consequence of brexit. they are a choice of an elected government putting up costs at some times by as much as 60, possibly closing down

some shops. >> it's completely crazy. >> it's completely crazy. >> and whilst i was in government, i stopped them with the support of liz truss and bofis the support of liz truss and boris johnson. >> that's what's gone wrong. you're no longer in government, that's why the wheels are falling off. finally these checks are so stupid and should never have been done because you're quite right, they are adding costs. >> why would a government want to put costs on its voters when they're completely, unnecessarily bonkers? we should be removing costs on goods coming from safe countries like new zealand, australia, canada and so on so we can cut and europe. i'd never have imposed these costs. >> meanwhile, city hall latest research suggests directly because of brexit, the economy shrunk by £30 billion and you probably don't notice the city hall research is completely politically skewed as you know, we can't go into that because there's an election tomorrow, so i'm going to have to leave city hall. >> i can't go on about £4,000 poorer. >> as an average londoner, you probably don't notice that because you're very rich, but i do. >> well, kelvin, do you know what the fact that tessa skint cheers me up in that way ? cheers me up in that way? >> and the fact the fact that her political views and her

wallet are aligned, it's fantastic. i hope she gets poorer and it won't have anything to do with brexit ehhen >> anyway , thank you very much >> anyway, thank you very much for my panel coming up. as the king visits a cancer centre and the duchess of edinburgh visits ukraine, kelvin has a thing or two to say about the sussexes upcoming visit to nigeria. two to say about the sussexes upcoming visit to nigeria . plus, upcoming visit to nigeria. plus, the woke brigade have been trying to claim britain's wealth was built on slavery. i'll be discussing the report that may just completely debunk

otherwise have been hot with the mail mugs coming in. and jerry says. mail mugs coming in. and jerry says . why is it the left always says. why is it the left always accusing the tories of misinformation? but completely silent when its own ranks spread untruths ? and. alexander. jacob, untruths? and. alexander. jacob, why do these checks have nothing to do with brexit? as you say, we didn't have them when we were in the eu. they're voluntary. the government has decided to impose them and it's absolutely

crackpot and putting up costs, which is why i opposed it. crackpot and putting up costs, which is why i opposed it . we which is why i opposed it. we can do them because we've left the european union. just because you can do something doesn't make it wise or necessary. >> why are they doing it? are they doing it just to raise revenues? >> no, no, they're doing it because depher is a protectionist department that thinks this will help farmers by pushing prices up. it's completely crazy nonsense. and depher is also a bunch of fanatics. anyway, it's got a very good secretary of state as i discussed yesterday with robert hardman, the king returned to his public duties for the first time since the announcement of his cancer diagnosis . announcement of his cancer diagnosis. he announcement of his cancer diagnosis . he was seen yesterday diagnosis. he was seen yesterday with the queen at central london cancer centre . meanwhile, the cancer centre. meanwhile, the duchess of edinburgh visited ukraine, making her the first royal to do so since the russian invasion. but a certain pugnacious panellist of mine, mr kelvin mackenzie, had this to say king charles has cancer but visits a cancer hospital. princess edward's wife sophie visits ukraine and condemns rapes by russian troops, while the duchess of sussex plans to visit nigeria as she's discovered she has some nigerian blood. it's always about meghan.

you should of course have , said you should of course have, said the duchess of sussex. well, with me now is my panel and let me let kelvin have the first word. you're a bit harsh, aren't you? >> but lowered you? >> but lowered you? >> yes. no it never lowers me. i've got. i got way further down to go than that, tessa. and you will discover it when we debate this . my will discover it when we debate this. my point really was that the king, you know, clearly , you the king, you know, clearly, you know, when you have cancer at his his age, you know, the first thing he does, he thinks about other people , right? and he goes other people, right? and he goes through a cancer ward. then you get sophie, who's been thrust into probably prominence in pubuc into probably prominence in public life right now, having been really much in the background now for the best part of 25 years. right. and she's thinking about other people. she's thinking about women who are being raped by russian soldiers as part of the russian war effort . right. and she war effort. right. and she stands up for it. she goes out to ukraine, which is actually not a not an easy thing to do. i would have thought. and then finally, meghan, it's announced that instead of coming to the uk , perhaps to rally round the

royal family in difficult times, both with the king and his and his daughter and what does she do? she nips over to nigeria, basically giving a in my view. after all, she keeps the title , after all, she keeps the title, doesn't she? she keeps the title right? rather than coming back to the uk, she gives a v—sign to the people, right? so she likes the people, right? so she likes the title, but she doesn't like the title, but she doesn't like the country. why doesn't she just say so? >> i agree she does have certain issues with britain and with people like you spouting off. can you blame her? i do blame her. i do blame her. actually, you could have some. are you telling me that it was right for her to say yes? >> goodbye. thank you. 6000 miles away. sorry. you carry on. sorry. >> what's fascinating is the long diatribe. a spiel on the good works, commendable works by the king and by sophie. >> that's got a stamp of approval. >> i wish we'd give more attention to ukraine. that is where the trouble lies. we all turn a blind eye. but when sophie rocks up in a frock, briefly , ukraine reappears on briefly, ukraine reappears on the agenda. >> what? the ukraine war is not being covered by the media.

>> that is ludicrous. let's be honest. ludicrous >> write this down. >> write this down. >> what putin wants. putin pretty much gets at the moment and that's the truth. we can come on to that. the gps blocking, etc. you name it, he's at it. but i commend sophie's visit and you said, oh, she's not been doing this. you're quite wrong. she's visited iraq , quite wrong. she's visited iraq, she's visited kosovo, the repubuc she's visited kosovo, the republic of congo, she's visited germany, afghanistan point. but my point is that she has not had the publicity that other members of the royal family have, and she stepped forward. what does it cost me? >> what's happened to kate? >> what's happened to kate? >> what's happened to kate? >> what distressed me is that you compared them working members of the royal family funded the trip to ukraine by the foreign office. quite rightly so, representing us on behalf of the king. the king likewise protected part of the institution doing what he passionately wants to do his vocation. okay and then you compare them with the duchess of sussex as a private individual who, incidentally, will give people in nigeria a huge amount of pleasure by visiting them. and the real reason your nose is put out of joint is that she's not coming to britain. >> how do you know the real

reason going to nigeria is going to give them a huge amount of pleasure? you're guessing at it, aren't you? everywhere else she's gone, she gets a huge, huge raspberry . she comes over huge raspberry. she comes over here, the most loved person that i can ever remember, joining the royal family. and within, within half an hour , she said. i'm not half an hour, she said. i'm not hanging around being told what to do by you lot. and she heads out to la in the mansion. i honestly, she's not worth defending . defending. >> just as we know that shared experience. the king gave pleasure . sophie will have given pleasure. sophie will have given pleasure. sophie will have given pleasure in ukraine desperately needed. and likewise she had experience meghan with her super stardust. which is why people like you are so peeved because she turned her back on britain. i understand we can we can sort out some counselling for you. kelvin. i'm peeved about her. you will recover from this. you will recover. >> she come back. why didn't she come back to the uk and wave to us all? because she thinks people like kelvin mackenzie are going to be two of you. that's true. so are you. you're entitled to a view. but that shouldn't stop her coming out and giving her views to our country. >> all right, well, i think let's move on. are you less

contentious? >> are you? >> are you? >> because a trade union, a trade union representing senior civil servants, has submitted an application for a judicial review against the government's controversial plan to send migrants to rwanda. the fda said its move, related to the relationship of the civil service code to the government's safety of rwanda act, it claims the rwanda scheme forces civil servants to ignore international law, which would breach the civil service code to uphold the rule of law and administration of justice. well, i hope my panel has calmed down in the last 30s i shall return to them, tessa, the civil service union seems to want to ignore a law that's just been passed saying that's just been passed saying that rwanda is a safe country. >> this morning i went down to make my oat milk decaffeinated coffee, and i switched on at radio four's today programme and i was , and i rarely am because i was, and i rarely am because one becomes inure to bad news and sad stories. but to hear that iraqi man who lost his seven year old daughter, who had been seeking asylum and been

rejected, 14 times, he couldn't get safe passage whose child died of suffocation on a dinghy while the french police hopelessly looked on and britain once more bangs on about rwanda. and i found tears splashing down my cheeks. and i actually think this is thin. end of the wedge stuff. jacob, we need to look at rwanda. we need to revisit where it places us and our record on human rights. and actually, i believe that that many civil servants who believed when they went into their job and they did those very difficult tests post university, believed that they would be putting pen and ink and effort to forwarding the agenda of a fundamentally decent country. and that is what the act of rwanda upturns for them . act of rwanda upturns for them. it makes us nasty, does it? >> that story, which i also heard was desperately tragic. yes. but isn't the conclusion that you have to stop the people traffickers, that those are the ones safe passage? they are the ones safe passage? they are the ones who are responsible. they're the ones who allowed this little girl, seven year old girl, to die because they overloaded the boat. they took money from these people and they had no duty of care. and that if we stop people coming on the

boats, then we save lives. and to do that, you have to do things that make the lives of the people traffickers is bonkers. >> it's blue cheese, bonkers to suggest that the possible spectre of rwanda, because very few people are going to go, even people who believe in the act don't think it's more of a symbolic deterrent than a real deterrent. if you think that that will stop people who are so desperate, they take their seven year olds on dinghies into the deep, dark blue sea. >> thought they'd get to the united kingdom. >> and that's what rwanda the only reason, the only reason that family as you care, edited what you heard this morning. >> because i heard it as well, was that he that the family had been kicked out of sweden, where they had spent three years. >> they've been seeking asylum for 14 years. his daughter was born in europe. >> you know, in a sense, the argument if you're going to have an argument about this is not about connecting with us. it's to say, well, why haven't the swedes? we've got we've got tundra coming out of their ears. right? we're, we're we are a small nation with 70 million people in there. they are a larger nation with about i don't

know, about 8 million people. >> do you know where that man came from? do you know where he came from? do you know where he came from? >> came from iraq. >> came from iraq. >> he came from basra. now, who occupied basra? who wellied on in there without being invited. so the british military, are you in favour of open frontiers? >> are you in are you in favour of allowing everybody into our country, even people that have been kicked out of other people's countries? >> he is being hounded by a militia that that came to, that came into existence in the wake of saddam hussein. and we have a direct they all say they will be hounded out. >> they all say they're gay. they all say they're this right , they all say they're this right, and they all throw their documents into the water to make sure that we can't find out who they are. >> he didn't throw his documents away. >> his applications had been turned down 14 times that do we apply turned down 14 times that do we apply to go into iraq when we went into that? doesn't imply 2003 that his grounds for claiming asylum were valid. so unless you're in favour of open borders , then i'm not in favour borders, then i'm not in favour of exclusively open borders. >> but we need to look . are you >> but we need to look. are you in favour of. we need to look at safe passage and we need to understand. we need to.

>> rwanda traffickers must be the priority . i agree, and the priority. i agree, and rwanda is part of that passage, is part of that. >> and speeding up the process and actually the result of safe routes. >> we've we've taken many people from ukraine, many people from hong kong, we've taken many people from syria that david cameron had a plan for 20,000 to come, but no longer from syria, no longer. that's true. we took many, very many from afghanistan as well. >> very difficult. >> very difficult. >> create these safe routes under certain circumstances. but unless you're in favour of open borders, we need a scheme of deterrence. and rwanda already seems to be working. >> if you look at the numbers of people who die in the channel, including seven year old children, that's why that isn't a deterrent . a deterrent. >> but that's why we've got to stop it. >> but it's ridiculous to suggest , if i >> but it's ridiculous to suggest, if i say to you, statistically there is a 10% chance you're going to die in the channel. but guess what? there's a 1% chance of going to rwanda. but it's not. you think rwanda. but it's not. you think rwanda will stop them and the channel won't. >> chance of dying. >> chance of dying. >> what's the what's the percentage chance of dying would be like 0.00, which is the chance of going to rwanda. statistically in this current

conservative administration. >> actually, yes. >> actually, yes. >> thank you . did you hear that? >> thank you. did you hear that? >> thank you. did you hear that? >> yeah. that's very unlikely. they'll be much higher for getting to rwanda . yeah. anyway, getting to rwanda. yeah. anyway, thank you to my panel. coming up next, we'll be discussing the report that may have just debunked the masochistic claim that britain's wealth was built on

well. welcome back. the metal mugs have been flowing in. as always. anna says meghan and harry are a tragic case. who represent our troubled younger generation who cry woe is me at every turn, ignoring what generations went through before them. and adam. adam, i think your point is absolutely beautiful. actually if cancer thinks it can beat our king, it should think again. he's far too full of goodness. what a delightful point. and glenn, what's the problem with the civil service suing the government over rwanda conscientious objectors? no, the problem is it's an attempt to delay the plan. it's a further effort by the left to stop the government getting on with the business of governing. when the

law has been passed, i hope they do not succeed , earlier this do not succeed, earlier this month, the business secretary, kemi badenoch , told a conference kemi badenoch, told a conference in the city that it's wrong to attribute britain's wealth to slavery and colonialism and seemingly upset all the right people. former historian turned left wing activist william dalrymple claimed the secretary of state ought to, quote, learn some history in what is seemingly the historical equivalent of eco fanatics, saying follow the science. but a new report published by the distinguished institute of economic affairs has suggested that colonial profits funded 7 to 15% of investment in britain and that sugar produced by slaves boosted the economy by only 2.5. the author of the report, kristian niemietz, goes on to argue that while colonialism and slavery made some people very rich, such profits were not large enough seriously to affect macroeconomic aggregates like britain's investment rate and capital formation . well, one of capital formation. well, one of his colleagues, the communications officer at the institute of economic affairs,

harrison griffiths, joins me now . harrison, thank you for coming in, 7,015% of investment sounds like quite a lot. >> yeah , it certainly does. and >> yeah, it certainly does. and the higher end of that range , it the higher end of that range, it rests on a pretty implausible calculation of the savings rate that british colonists would have had to have kind of employed in order to have, in order for colonial profits to have generated that much of britain's investment wealth. so if we project that they had a roughly similar savings rate to the one that domestic british consumers had, then it's probably closer to that 7% range. now, that's that does sound like a lot. that's certainly nothing to be sniffed at, but you have to then compare it against the costs. and then the costs that come out are, for example, the costs of creating and maintaining a colonial empire, which are significant . empire, which are significant. if britain had, for example, cut its military expenditure down to french or german levels at the time, we could have had a tax cut that would have been worth about a quarter of the overall. >> what time are we talking about? is this 18th century that

we're talking. >> so this is this is the, you know, the age of empire really ramps up. so this is the late 18th and early to mid 19th centuries, just before the industrial revolution really kicks off in earnest. >> okay. and so the agricultural revolution is taking place. and sugaris revolution is taking place. and sugar is being created by the slaves or grown by the slaves and brought back to england. that's the main source of revenue, because sugar isn't just sold in the uk, it's sold to other countries . to other countries. >> yes. so when we're talking about slavery, sugar is kind of the highest, the highest earner. so to speak. but what what you kind of just sorry. >> what about the trade itself? because obviously we are instrumental in the trade in people at the earliest stages of this. is that profitable for the uk ? uk? >> it's not profitable for the uk. broadly speaking, the controversy is not whether this generates some money for some people. it certainly made a lot of people very rich. we can't get away from that. but what it is a product of government protectionism. basically, the government , through its military government, through its military expenditure and in some cases literally direct fiscal transfers, is subsidising and protecting these people to

exchange in people. and so what you have there is whatever you what you have, whenever you have a government intervention, it creates concentrated benefits and disperse costs. and those disperse costs were borne by british taxpayers, british consumers , and of course, the consumers, and of course, the people who were the victims of the trade. >> so in the 18th and 19th centuries, the uk is a very fast growing economy. it does extremely well. and also at the beginning of the 18th century at least, it's a very important slave trading nation. is it not fair to say that there is a correlation between the two, no, not exactly, because if again, if you look at the analysis, the people who got rich were a concentrated group of politically well—connected individuals. and you see this with government interventions all the time. i think housing in the present day is a good example . you have a small group example. you have a small group of people who benefit from the government's restrictive planning laws because they're a small group of people, and partly because of the electoral system there. it's very much easier for them to politically organise than everybody else. so through restrictive planning laws, you have a tremendous act,

in my opinion, of national economic self—harm. but it does benefit a small group of people, which is why it continues this exactly the same story when it comes to colonialism and trade. >> and what about the later costs of removing the slave trade that come in the second half of the 19th century, when the british navy, the royal navy, is spending a lot of its time and effort on trying to stop slavery. >> yes . so when the process of >> yes. so when the process of britain outlawing slavery in its colonies kind of goes from 1834 to 1843, and in 1837 an act is passed to basically buy off people who previously owned slaves. this may seem like a kind of tragic decision from a moral perspective, but from a pragmatic perspective, they knew it would be much easier to secure the emancipation of slaves if they paid people off. so it starts with that. and then there was a rather significant military operation by the royal navy for some decades to eradicate the slave trade on its on the trade routes and colonies that it controlled. these were significant expenditures, the expenditure alone to to free

basically pay off slave owners, to free their slaves was at the time about 40% of the exchequer's total revenue. these were serious payments. now, i would argue, even as a pretty libertarian guy, that these were good government expenditures to basically end the scourge of slavery , but they're still costs slavery, but they're still costs nonetheless that we have to account for in this legacy. >> and it continues. because if you go through to gordon, why is gordon at khartoum? gordon is at khartoum because he's trying to put down the slave trade. and then you have the relief expedition of kitchener that is enormously expensive. admittedly the sudan ends up being incorporated into the empire , incorporated into the empire, but that was all about stopping slavery. that was its original mission. >> yeah, absolutely. and again, this is where you look at these these figures, like 7% of total investment, you might say. that is quite a lot of money. i mean british financial services at the moment, one of our biggest, most important industries accounts for about 8.3% of our total annual investment. but but it has to be compared against those costs and some of those costs you've just described of ending slavery are a product of the fact that we employed it in

the fact that we employed it in the first place. and there were also costs of defending, establishing empire and slavery in the first place. >> so the 7% investment, or 77 to 15, you explained why you think it's the lower figure . is think it's the lower figure. is annual investment coming in? >> it's the long run average. >> it's the long run average. >> and the 2.5% figure of economic growth is that an annual average or is that a cumulative average figure. >> so it's a long term average figure. so what else . when figure. so what else. when you're looking at that you're looking at a smaller portion over that same time period of sheep farming in the uk. nobody says that sheep farming triggered the industrial revolution. and yet you have this pervasive myth that slavery did. >> so what is it about the beginnings of the 18th century that forms the basis of the 19th century industrial revolution and the extraordinary development of the uk, which then spreads around the world, so unsatisfactory as it might be, there are lots and lots of different competing hypotheses about this. >> but economists generally say, broadly speaking, it's to do with the institutions that a country has. now that's very vague , i know, but that's things vague, i know, but that's things like private property rights for

example, the rule of law, liberal democracy, generally speaking , which generates the speaking, which generates the conditions necessary for free markets to emerge. and then ultimately britain is actually a very successful free trading nafion very successful free trading nation without colonies. right. so most of our foreign trade is undertaken with the united states and with other european countries. and so that combination of domestic free markets and free trade with our neighbours, as well as some trade with the colonies, created the conditions, basically high wages in the uk for massive capital investment that triggered the industrial revolution. >> so it's basically what sir john fortescue predicted when he wrote in 1485. thank you very much, harrison. and finally , much, harrison. and finally, last year i asked artificial intelligence to show me a picture of what andrew bailey would look like if he identified as a good governor of the bank of england. and it showed me this picture . yes. how we all this picture. yes. how we all miss the days of mervyn king's governorship of the bank, long before the flock of ostriches took over and immersed their headsin took over and immersed their heads in the sand. but while he's been missed as governor the good news is that he's taking over an even more distinguished institution . he's been appointed institution. he's been appointed the new president of the

marylebone cricket club, which must make him the king of kings and lord of lords. anyway, that's all from me. up next, it's patrick christys patrick. have you got lords of lords and king of kings on your programme this evening? >> no, but i've got loads and loads of great stuff. jacob. i'm starting to have a chat about the number of migrant sex offenders that we have in this country , and why they are not country, and why they are not being revealed to us by the authorities . astrazeneca has authorities. astrazeneca has finally admitted that there are, in cases, vaccine damages. i'm going to be talking to some survivors there. the harry potter actors are continuing to absolutely slam jk rowling, despite the fact they'd be stacking shelves in lidl if it wasn't for that particular franchise, visas for foreign students. they've stopped them bringing dependents over and shock, horror , they've reduced. shock, horror, they've reduced. i've got all that and much more. jacob >> well, it's a real success. and you'd have seen in the house of commons earlier today a statement being made about how the numbers of legal migrants are coming down, which is much easier to do than illegal. >> yes. no indeed. and i just feel as though the tide is

slightly turning . maybe. maybe slightly turning. maybe. maybe for rishi sunak. but a long way to go then. okay that's all off the weather. >> i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has been saved. nation on the weather in somerset will be fantabulous as always. and you'll be seeing hallelujahs to the sunshine that you get there tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there! welcome to the latest weather update from the met office for gb news. heavy rain overnight in the south continuing into much of thursday. risk of thunderstorms in places but it will be much dner in places but it will be much drier further north. we've got an area of low pressure across the continent that's going to push some humid and warm air into much of the uk overnight, but on the boundary between that and the cooler air out in the atlantic, we've got this reactivation of a frontal zone, bringing some heavy rain to northern ireland, wales and then increasingly southern england. the persistent wet weather will affect south wales and the

southwest of england by dawn, but thundery showers will turn up across the midlands, southern england as well, and they'll tend to drift their way northwards and westwards into mid wales and continue for some time through the morning. eventually the rain does ease in many places. we keep the cloud cover in the south, but much dner cover in the south, but much drier and brighter weather is expected further north, i think for northern england, scotland and northern ireland, some decent sunny spells will turn up. however, on the north sea coast a lot of low cloud will be prevalent and that will limit temperatures 11 to 12 celsius. whilst it goes up to 21 to 23 celsius. in western scotland, similar temperature contrast across northern scotland on friday, warm in the west , cool friday, warm in the west, cool in the east. southern england some warm sunshine as well, but in between outbreaks of rain continuing even some thundery showers on saturday. the fine weather moves north, but there'll be further rain coming up from the south. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of

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gb news. >> good evening. i'm ray addison in the gp newsroom . in the gp newsroom. >> coming up is headliners. but first, our top stories tonight. 36 year old marcus aurelio arduini. monzo has been charged with the murder of 14 year old daniel anjorin. following a sword attack in east london. daniel was fatally injured as he walked to school on tuesday morning. four other people, including two police officers, were hospitalised and people have been gathering to lay flowers at the scene with police officers . among those laying officers. among those laying those tributes, one card read may your beautiful son rest in peace. met police say monzo , of peace. met police say monzo, of newham, is a dual spanish brazilian national. he's also been charged with two counts of attempted murder, two counts of grievous bodily harm, aggravated burglary and possession of a

bladed article. he'll appear at barkingside magistrates court tomorrow . well, police believe tomorrow. well, police believe a piece of glass may have been used as a weapon during an incident at a school in sheffield . 17 year old boy has sheffield. 17 year old boy has been arrested for attempted murder after three people were hurt at the birley academy this morning . police have praised the morning. police have praised the actions of school staff, describing the events as a frightening ordeal. describing the events as a frightening ordeal . the frightening ordeal. the government looks set to face more legal challenges over its rwanda plan. after detaining the first group of migrants to be deported, both men and women have been taken into custody in a series of operations across the country, officials won't confirm how many people have been detained or where they were taken from. so far, the fda trade union, which represents senior civil servants, is threatening legal action over the plan. well, meanwhile, gb news can reveal that more than 1700 small boat migrants have crossed the english channel in just over a week. early this morning , a boatload of around 70

morning, a boatload of around 70 people was