stain on the bbc's another stain on the bbc's escutcheon after chris packham, besmirches toby young and the daily sceptic falsely claiming affiliations to the fossil fuel industry with no challenge or correction from the supposedly impartial public service broadcaster toby young joins me in the studio for this evening's finale. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most malicious panel this evening, the former brexit party mep and nunziata rees—mogg and the author and broadcaster amy nicole turner. as always, as you know, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's what you've all been waiting for . it's what you've all been waiting for. the it's what you've all been waiting for . the news bulletin waiting for. the news bulletin with ray addison. >> good evening. it's 8:00. i'm

ray addison in the gb newsroom. the snp is preparing for a leadership contest after the scottish first minister announced his resignation. humza yousafs admitted that he underestimated the level of upset he would cause by cutting political ties with the greens. he'll now continue in his post until a replacement can be found . clearly emotional, mr yousaf said he's quitting to help repair relationships across the political divide . political divide. >> no, ella whelan certainly bear no grudge against anyone. politics can be a brutal business. it takes its toll on your physical and mental health. your family suffer alongside you. i am in absolute debt to my wonderful wife, my beautiful children and my wider family for putting up with me over the years. i'm afraid you will be seeing a lot more of me, from now . how. >> now. >> well, the race to replace humza yousaf starts now . former humza yousaf starts now. former deputy first minister john swinney says he's considering it

carefully. >> i've got lots of things to think about and there's the whole question of my, my family and i have to make sure that i do the right thing by my family. they're precious to me. i have to do the right thing by my party and by my country. so there's lots to be thought about and i'll give all of that consideration in the days to come . come. >> the northern ireland secretary says the government is surprised by how quickly their rwanda plan appears to be working. speaking at a british irish conference in london, chris heaton—harris said they hadnt chris heaton—harris said they hadn't expected the deterrent effect to begin before flights took off. it comes after the irish government said it's seen an 80% increase in asylum seekers entering from northern ireland. they want to return them to the united kingdom, but them to the united kingdom, but the government says that will only be possible if we can send small boat migrants back to the eu. >> it was always going to be the case. we believed as a government that our rwanda policy would act as a deterrent

for people coming to this country illegally. i think we are slightly surprised that it's manifested itself so quickly after the act, became law, and we are now in the process of making sure that we are, gathering those individuals who could qualify for the first flight to be on that first flight. >> two men have appeared in court charged with murder after a torso was found in a nature reserve in salford. the 68 and 42 year olds spoke only to confirm their names and dates of birth. with the help of polish translators . greater manchester translators. greater manchester police believes that human remains at three other locations belong to the same victim , a man belong to the same victim, a man in his 60s. the initial discovery was made by a member of the public at kersal dale wetlands. more than three weeks ago. well, for the latest stories, you can sign up for gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb

news. common alerts back now to . jacob. >> welcome back to state of the nation. the rwanda plan is working since the royal assent of the safety of rwanda bill last week, ireland has seen an increase in migrants crossing its border, escaping from the risk of deportation to rwanda. last week, irish justice minister helen mcentee told a parliamentary committee that 80% of recent arrivals in ireland have come from the united kingdom . ireland's deputy prime kingdom. ireland's deputy prime minister and foreign secretary micheal martin, has explicitly said the influx has been caused by fears of deportations to rwanda, so despite the fact that for years we've been told by the labour party that the rwanda plan won't work and won't serve as a viable deterrent, although they couldn't provide any alternative deterrent themselves in one week. just one week since the bill received royal assent before flights have even been scheduled, the deterrent is taking effect. thus, the irish

government is proposing emergency legislation to deport migrants back to the uk. this is to overcome the problem that the irish courts recently found that the uk is not a safe country because of the threat of rwanda deportation . and this is deportation. and this is glorious because all the international lawyers have said it's quite wrong for the british government to declare rwanda safe. what will they say about the irish government declaring the irish government declaring the uk safe and overturning its courts? the international lawyers, the peers will be having paroxysms of complicated sophistical discussion to try and work this one out, but fortunately , even if the courts fortunately, even if the courts and the irish parliament were to permit this, the british government is standing firm, and rightly so. today, downing street confirmed that we will not accept any deportations from ireland back into the uk. and let me be clear, i don't think we owe anything to ireland or the eu in terms of refugee returns . we've been trying to returns. we've been trying to negotiate such an agreement with france for ages , but all we've france for ages, but all we've had in return is french ships

escorting small boats into british waters. the french have shown that they're happy to uphold the status quo. but what this news really presents is a golden opportunity, an opportunity to send all of the illegal migrants in the uk to facilities near the irish border. if it just so happens that they then end up crossing the border, which, according to belfast agreement, must remain open and indeed our departure from european union agreement, so be it. according to the irish courts, they're happy to take in all the poor refugees fleeing persecution , and there is an persecution, and there is an army barracks that's apparently facing redevelopment , and we're facing redevelopment, and we're using other military facilities in the rest of the uk. and northern ireland is a fundamental part of the uk. it can do its bit and it can house some migrants , which can then be some migrants, which can then be sent over to the republic, where they'll be wonderfully safe, as opposed to this dangerous land that they . tried to get into in that they. tried to get into in the first place. this would have

many advantages. it would keep the cost of rwanda down as fewer people would need to be sent there, and the eu would be so happy because it would fulfil its beloved human rights obligations. and the irish government could feel a sense of superiority to his majesty's government. there will be no migrants coming to the uk from ireland, and there's no need to stop them going there. perhaps a maverick viewer may want to set up a charity to help pay the transport costs of illegal migrants, who have got in over the channel to send them to southern ireland. i believe it's very pleasant place to be at this time of year as ever. let me know your thoughts. mel. margaret gb news. com and i'm joined now by one man who has covered this issue more closely than most, the telegraph journalist michael murphy. michael, thank you very much for coming in, why has the irish government got into such a lather about all of this? >> well, i think we should take the 80% figure with a pinch of salt. so two weeks ago, the irish government admitted that they didn't know how many people were coming over the border. and

then rishi sunak past his rwanda bill through parliament and the figure miraculously appeared and it was 80, we were told, by justice minister helen mcentee, if you look at how the irish government collects this data, they monitor people coming in to ports and airports who claim asylum at ports. they don't monitor people coming over the border , and they don't monitor border, and they don't monitor people who just come through the airports or ports and then claim asylum at a later date. so i think it's quite a convenient narrative for the irish government to blame, the border with the uk because this is an issue that people instinctively understand in ireland . it's understand in ireland. it's a very complicated issue that can shift the focus away from their own failures. >> so they quite like blaming the uk government for anything that goes wrong. but this time they've discovered that the uk government doesn't care and are saying , well, this is your saying, well, this is your problem, we don't mind and they'd rather advertise it to asylum seekers. illegal migrants

in the uk, that there may be a safe route into the eu, into an eu state by northern ireland and hopping over the border into the south. >> well, exactly jacob, i don't know how many of your viewers are familiar with the barbra streisand effect, but you know, if you advertise that you have a rather sickly border that you can't defend and that people are, will will not be sent back from ireland, then , you know, from ireland, then, you know, you're basically advertising, you're basically advertising, you're ringing the dinner bell for the world's , asylum seekers, for the world's, asylum seekers, because once they're in the repubuc because once they're in the republic of ireland , they're in republic of ireland, they're in an eu member state. >> ultimately, that gives them freedom of movement across the eu, which they probably would rather prefer to being in the uk. >> well, exactly. yeah. and i mean , an irony of this is that mean, an irony of this is that many of them probably originated in france or came to britain via france. >> and that's one of the reasons i don't think we have any responsibility. i've always thought the basic principle under the, conventions on refugees that your first safe country could, should keep you is absolutely sensible. and

anyone who's got to france, however much we like to tease the french, is in a safe country and therefore they ought to get back to france . therefore, if back to france. therefore, if they're going to ireland, it's not our responsibility, is it? it's a matter really, for the french and the irish. >> well, i think the british government has an opportunity, which i'm sure they'll capitalise on now to say to the irish, if you want us to play ball with you , then the french ball with you, then the french need to play ball with us. and so it's a it's a kind of ironic turning of the tables where, you know, ireland acted as a kind of lapdog for the eu during the brexit negotiations. and now i think the british government holds all the cards to tell ireland to go and lobby brussels on its behalf. >> well, let's have a look at a clip of your research into this and into the problem of migrants in ireland. the irish government has bused refugees, often at night and with little warning, into towns like roscrea, sparking local anger and weeks long demonstrations. >> i went to roscrea, where locals have been protesting for three weeks outside the town's

only hotel closed down last month after the government struck a deal with its owner to house more than 160 asylum seekers there. >> i am out here. first of all, i'm a mother, and i'm very, very concerned about the level of migration that's happening into our town. we are one of the smallest towns in tipperary, and we have 85% of international protection applicants . protection applicants. >> and we do a lot with the french to try and persuade them to help. we give them a lot of money. we share various other resources with them. should we be expecting something from the repubuc be expecting something from the republic of ireland so that we might be able to help them a bit? >> i think so, jacob. yes i think that simon harris came out today and said that he's going today and said that he's going to need to speak to the eu about this and, you know, it's going to be a quid pro quo basis of if, if ireland wants, migration to be stemmed at the border with the uk. i don't even know how the uk. i don't even know how

the logistics of that would be worked out. but if the uk is going to offer a helping hand, it's going to need something in return, and we may perhaps be able to get something in terms of goods going to and from with northern ireland, where the green lane and the red lane still seem to have lots of difficulties for goods going back and forth, and aren't as free as they were meant to be. yes, i suppose it will come down to whether brussels is willing to whether brussels is willing to reopen those wounds, and it might be the case that while ireland was keen to do brussels bidding, will brussels return the favour? >> and that's a fascinating question, because immigration refugee status is an issue across the whole of the eu, isn't it, obviously merkel opening up germany, the numbers in france, and although the numbers coming to uk are quite high, they are much higher in most continental eu states. so the eu may think, well, the numbers getting to ireland compared to the numbers going to italy and so on are tiny. why should we worry? >> well, exactly. and that's the danger obviously , for people danger obviously, for people living in ireland, especially in small towns like roscrea . in the

small towns like roscrea. in the video we just played, it's, it's fairly existential , but from the fairly existential, but from the lofty heights of brussels, it doesn't . it seems like a drop lofty heights of brussels, it doesn't. it seems like a drop in the ocean. >> and it's a fascinating insight into how the eu works, because as soon as the french farmers started besieging paris, the eu dropped its rules on environmentalism for farms. massive screeching u—turn very unlikely to see something similar happen in terms of migrants when it's affecting ireland . ireland. >> well, we are coming up to the eu elections where a number of right wing parties are expected to storm ahead and so i think the eu is, is quite, defensive at the moment about it's giving people too much political caphal people too much political capital, taking the wind out of people like marine le pen sales ireland, i don't think will be a big concern for them because there are no populist parties, apart from sinn fein , and there apart from sinn fein, and there are no eu sceptic parties in ireland who have a considerable base. ireland who have a considerable base . if that were to change,

base. if that were to change, that might change the calculus in brussels . in brussels. >> it's not a very nice word and perhaps not a very nice emotion, but are we allowed a little bit of schadenfreude looking at what's going in on ireland after the way they behaved at the brexit negotiations? >> i think a bit of mirth at the irish, being hoisted on their own petard, as it were , is fine. own petard, as it were, is fine. >> i would slightly push back against maybe said in jest the idea that we should weaponize this in any way. i think that would be a big mistake for britain. >> so you don't want to organise a charabanc tour from somerset with any illegal migrants there to take them over to northern ireland so they can hop over the border? >> as funny as monty python like as that sounds, i would, i would advise against it if i was in in downing street. oh that's such a pity downing street. oh that's such a pity you're being so conservative. >> but conservative is good anyway. thank you. michael coming up, how's the final nail been? hammered into the coffin of scottish nationalism. can you remember usafe's greatest moments? plus the bbc has refused to apologise after letting letting chris packham

use terminological inexactitudes about toby young and the daily sceptic

well, we've been talking about migrants and sending them to southern ireland. and martin emails in males mog to say i like southern ireland. but what goes around comes around. and pat. migrants entering the irish

repubuc pat. migrants entering the irish republic from northern ireland are going back to where they came from. the eu . and now came from. the eu. and now welcome to it, stuart. why don't home office, why doesn't the home office, why doesn't the home office, why doesn't the home office run coaches from dover to northern ireland? problem solved. yes, that's broadly what i was proposing. and a proud irishman. it's the repubuc and a proud irishman. it's the republic of ireland , not republic of ireland, not southern ireland. yes, i know, but it teases so . that's why but it teases so. that's why sometimes say southern ireland . sometimes say southern ireland. so today marks just one of many nails hammered into the coffin of scottish nationalism . as of scottish nationalism. as first minister, humza yousaf announced his resignation , announced his resignation, spending the weekend reflecting on what is best for my party, for the government for and the country i lead. >> i've concluded that repairing our relationship across the political divide can only be done with someone else at the helm . i have therefore informed helm. i have therefore informed the snp's national secretary of my intention to stand down as party leader . party leader. >> well, i'm not sorry to see the back of this eco woke

fanatic and hope to welcome the socially conservative kate forbes to take his place. nonetheless, i thought it'd be fair to list some of humza yousaf greatest moments in scottish politics coming in at number three. we have the recent moment when he had to backtrack on the snp's flagship green target, cutting emissions by 75% by 2030. >> this government will not move back by, as i say, a single month, a week or even a day from that 2045 target to achieving net zero. but let's be clear the climate change committee were always clear with us that the 2030 target was a stretch target. that was a stretch target, therefore somewhat elastic coming in at number two, the moment when mr yousaf outed himself as a racist against white people. my portfolio alone, the lord president white, the lord justice clerk, white, every high court judge white, the lord advocate white, the solicitor general , white, the

solicitor general, white, the chief constable white, every deputy chief constable white, every assistant chief constable white, the head of the law society, white. >> i think that's really awful to listen to as it happens. and in the first place, not a and in first place, the winner of the best moments. not a political moment per se, but one that embodies mr yousaf's leadership. ihave embodies mr yousaf's leadership. i have a nasty feeling something similar happened to george bush junior on some funny type of movement thing. politicians shouldn't risk it . movement thing. politicians shouldn't risk it. i'm joined now by my panel, former brexit party mep and current sister and arne slot rees—mogg, and the author and broadcaster amy nicholl turner. come on amy, you're a lefty. have you got something nice to say about youssef? >> well, that number one clip wasn't even from his time as first minister. that was ages ago. you need to get over that. come on. it's quite funny. well, yeah, it's like. >> it's like. it's like poor

old. it's like poor old david miliband and his banana and ed miliband and his banana and ed miliband and his bacon sandwich. these moments stay with politicians. >> well, yeah, it it's true. and i wouldn't have forgiven you if you hadn't included it. really because it is unforgettable, i think humza yousaf has had an unfair time. i don't think we can judge him that well, because i think he was handed a poisoned chalice in many ways, and he was doomed to fail from the start. and i feel quite sorry for him, really, but i think he he showed his true integrity and his true strength when he , was one of the strength when he, was one of the only voices to stand in support of a ceasefire in gaza. and i think that he'll probably be remembered fondly for that and for actually having a bit of, a bit of compassion where perhaps other people felt other politicians didn't, where it was lacking. i think him and layla moran really stood out for that penod moran really stood out for that period of time as colin hart, amy's kindly and we're just tough, old, hard nosed right wingers who ought to have a bit more sympathy for somebody who did his best in very difficult

circumstances . circumstances. >> amy might be glad you played your clip of him falling over. i'm glad you played his second clip, which was the cause of the vast majority. well, in fact, it was a quarter of the 9000 complaints. the first 9000 complaints. the first 9000 complaints under then his new hate speech law, a quarter of the first 9000 were about him as a racist. it shows you just what a racist. it shows you just what a bad lawmaker he was that whilst that is deeply objectionable, it was such badly drafted law, it was such badly thought through law, even the police opposed it and it was delayed because of that. that he shouldn't have been taking responsibility for a country thatis responsibility for a country that is in dire need of very good leadership under the snp over the last 17 years, the schools are going down, the addictions are going up, people are leaving because of the increases in tax, the lower

income is going down. it has been a disaster for scotland and i just hope what has been a disaster , good leader, but disaster, good leader, but i don't know that the snp will have the snp or the whole of devolution in devolution has not. >> and is that is that the real problem? welsh devolution is pretty bad too. >> well, you're never going to like devolution because you're a conservative. you see it as a stepping stone to independence, which you would be vehemently against, i'm sure. >> but but because i don't think it works, i think it's in the interests of the country. >> you understand the importance of local democracy, prioritising the needs of your closest politics is all local. that kind ally pally. >> but all of those people come to westminster and look at the snp and westminster. >> they are much higher quality people in westminster. people like ian blackford , people like like ian blackford, people like stephen flynn, like stephen flynn is very capable politician. right. and so, so evenin politician. right. and so, so even in the snp, all the clever ones come to westminster. do they leave the duffers behind? look at alex salmond. alex salmond always loved being in westminster. right.

>> and he's now pulling the strings again . >> and he's now pulling the strings again. i >> and he's now pulling the strings again . i mean, he could strings again. i mean, he could create a coalition by which the snp could hang on if they give in to his preference , his they in to his preference, his they don't seem to have entered talks in any kind of serious way. i don't think they're serious about supporting the country. they supposedly are so in love with. they want to take it independent. i personally think it would be a disaster for scotland if it weren't independent. however, i do think that that should be their choice in british taxpayers. ex scotland should be allowed to stop supporting them. >> i don't think the appetite for independence is necessarily quite once what it was, but of course they did get a bit of a raw deal because they were voting pre—brexit. so a vote for independence was a vote to leave the european union, not in the knowledge that we would eventually leave the european union anyway. so i think that a call for a second referendum would make sense, just based on the false information that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the eu , the more leave the eu, the more independence they've been given, it's basically seems to have

given the snp more rope with which to hang themselves. >> that at every chance they could have made a wrong decision. they have done so. whether it's in social policy, whether it's in health policy, whether it's in health policy, whether it's in financial policy, it is all been a disaster, whether it's going through an alcohol taxes so that the scottish can't have the same deals that we get in the supermarkets south of the border. and which are having zero impact on their very serious health problems associated with alcohol. >> i've seen the first drug consumption rooms in the uk great because they have the highest drug deaths in any european country . importance of european country. importance of local policy for local issues which they got on their watch. >> that's right. >> that's right. >> they created . >> they created. >> they created. >> thank you. thank you to my panel >> thank you to my panel coming up, the who w.h.o. pandemic treaty is expected to be ratified next month. but i'll explaining why it poses a serious threat to our sovereignty. plus, what will it for take the bbc to apologise for take the bbc to apologise for allowing misinformation to be spread on its programmes

? well, 7 well, we've ? well, we've had a flurry of mail. mogg'sjohn well, we've had a flurry of mail. mogg's john says that's a cracking trio of clips, jacob. all very funny and phil never laughed so much on a political show. will you encourage my children, should you meet them to laugh at my jokes, which they are distinctly reluctant to do? they need a bit of re—education, and adele , he's done nothing for

and adele, he's done nothing for scotland. it's all about giving our to money other countries. we may have left the european union , but it appears threats to national sovereignty are never too far away . under a treaty to too far away. under a treaty to be ratified next month in a future pandemic , the world future pandemic, the world health organisation may have the power to demand that the united kingdom hand over 20% of its vaccine and drug stockpiles into a global reserve. this has sparked fears that foreign populations that don't even actually need them may receive british made vaccines. before the british public. and questions of national sovereignty aside, can we really trust the who? many suggest that the chinese communist party is rather good at giving it the run around. well, with me is molly kingsley, campaigner and founder of us. for them . molly, founder of us. for them. molly, thank you for joining founder of us. for them. molly, thank you forjoining me founder of us. for them. molly, thank you for joining me for some months , many of my some months, many of my constituents have been writing to me saying , constituents have been writing to me saying, we're about to hand all this power over to the w.h.o. hand all this power over to the who. and the government's kept on saying, no, we're not. don't worry. should we now be worried? >> we should be worried and we

should have been worried all along. jacob. so what has happened this week is finally, after waiting for over a year , after waiting for over a year, new drafts of both the pandemic treaty and also a separate set of amendments which are amendments to the international health regulations. new drafts have been released. now, the good news is that these drafts together are a lot better than they could have been. so as you know, i know we've talked about this before, but the original draft, particularly of the amendments to the international health regulations, was one of the most egregious international documents i have ever seen. and, you know, it imposed really wide ranging restrictions on our ability to act independently on free speech. it ordained the world health organisation not only, as you know, leader of international health response, but as a almost turbocharged , but as a almost turbocharged, charged global censorship agency. and it also imposed really quite drastic restrictions on human rights, on

individual freedoms, on basic liberties that i think many of us felt deeply concerned by. the good news is that many of those provisions have been either significantly watered down or deleted altogether from the current drafts. however a load of problems remain, so the pandemic treaty is predicated on the basis that the world health organisation is appointed, as you know, global leader of a new international health architecture and just as you say, jacob, that health architecture is mandatory and under it the uk would be required as it is currently drafted, to hand over a portion, 20% of its, you know, technology of its vaccines. it would also be required to significantly , be required to significantly, significantly strengthen its surveillance network. so searching for new pathogens to put more money into international health and pandemic preparations and various other provisions, all of

which are aimed to strengthen the existing national regime . the existing national regime. >> okay, but a minister of the crown can sign whatever treaty he feels like and it has no effect in the uk unless it's passed into law by parliament. it may have effect in international law, but we have a dualist system. so domestic law isn't changed until parliament changes it. so does it really matter, or is this just a wish list? >> yeah, it's a fair question. so it will not take direct effect as eu obviously did. eu law obviously did and it will not be subject to the binding jurisdiction of a you know, an international court in the same way that european law was. however, we should be under no illusions. this is a binding treaty. the phraseology used is mandatory. so it's not as a general rule, the uk should endeavour to we should try to . endeavour to we should try to. it is mandatory. the uk shall, it must. some of it has time commitments put against it. some of it has specific amounts. now

of it has specific amounts. now of course you get into questions of course you get into questions of what happens if we don't if we breach international agreements. but jacob, that's not usually how we enter into into international agreements. >> and what are what are the countries doing? what are the united states doing? does it require unanimity or does it take effect if a majority of the states vote for it ? states vote for it? >> yeah. so there are two different regimes here. so the international health regulations , which in some ways, as i said, was, you know, i think many of us thought was the more obnoxious of the treaties that actually doesn't need a vote at all. that has the opposite. it has an opt out. so as things currently stand, we will be bound by that unless we opt out ten months from the date it is passed, the treaty will require ratification . it will require ratification. it will require two thirds ratification. but there's a very interesting point on these agreements, which is that under the who's own document, so under the existing international law framework, these agreements were meant to be laid before national

parliaments at the beginning of january , there was a mandatory january, there was a mandatory four month period for the amendments to the international health regulations to be laid. now, this sounds like a boring technical technicality, but it's really important because those agreements were not laid before national parliaments. they were not made available by the world health organisation . and what health organisation. and what that means is that it is likely that means is that it is likely that any vote on these agreements at the may meeting , agreements at the may meeting, which is coming up in three weeks, is likely to be invalid under international law. and actually the uk has a great opportunity to say to push back on this . on this. >> boring technicalities are at the heart of all legislation and all justice, so i'm very glad that you have told us that, and ihope that you have told us that, and i hope this intrusion into our sovereignty proves to be invalid. thank you very much, molly. it's a pleasure, mps today debated the ethics of assisted dying after a petition backed by dame esther rantzen reached over 200,000 signatures. assisted suicide is illegal in

england, wales and northern ireland, with a maximum prison sentence of 14 years. the campaigners are urging mps to consider legalisation. with me now is my panel, nancy rees—mogg and amy nicole turner. amy, this is a very difficult, issue. the question is do you put the dying at greater risk by allowing them to kill themselves or by not allowing them to ? allowing them to? >> i think from a compassionate point out, i will always think that it would to be the to the benefit of the dying to have assisted suicide . however, assisted suicide. however, i don't think we're practically there just due to the state of social care and palliative care. so both are neglected. they're under funded. so my fear is that because growing old, and particularly when you have ill health or you're dying, is incredibly expensive, so you can expect to spend £100,000 on your care if you do have more than

£23,000 in assets. so your house, your car, your savings, you'll pay for all your care. a nursing home is a roughly £4,000 a month, and if you have live in palliative care, it's £2,000 a month. so my fear is that it's not going to be freedom of choice whilst that's in. well, that's the status quo. it's an illusion of freedom of choice because people will feel financially pressured to make that decision. so until we get a grip on social care and palliative care, i don't think we're ready to make this. did matthew change paris, give the game away? >> in his article for the times, where he said that that it should become socially positive to say i want to be killed and that those of us who say, well, no, i don't want to be killed, it should be seen as the pariahs. and that was quite a strong message. but isn't that what underpins this death culture of those who are advocating assisted suicide? >> i can see exactly why people

would advocate it, because the argument you often hear is, well, i wouldn't want my dog to go through that much pain. we put animals down. why would we not do the same for our relatives ? why do we want to see relatives? why do we want to see them in so much pain? but i actually don't think in a society with a working palliative care system that anyone would ultimately be in as much pain because it would work if we had working palliative care. and i think what matthew paris was kind of getting to was an economic incentive for people to take this decision. and i think really when we look at a lot of the way the nhs works, decisions are often made in in areas such as maternity care, they'll go for the cheaper opfion they'll go for the cheaper option rather than potentially the more beneficial option to the more beneficial option to the mother . so we see it in the mother. so we see it in areas of medicine. i don't know why we wouldn't see it in this , why we wouldn't see it in this, and i think that there is evidence from countries that have it that some families do put pressure on their elderly to either inherit or to save the costs, or the time spent caring for them. >> but i think it goes far, far broader than that, that we now look to other countries that have introduced this. if you

look at the netherlands, it was legalised. there in 2005. it started off at just over 1% of deaths were by assisted suicide. it's now over 5% and it's gone up it's now over 5% and it's gone ”p by it's now over 5% and it's gone up by 339% in 9017 years. it's getting more and more prevalent across all sorts of areas that young people with no physical health issues are choosing to take their own lives via a doctor. now, we cannot ban suicide. i think that would be impossible. if someone is determined to kill themselves, they will. but i think it is chronically wrong to turn doctors into god to decide when people live or die, and that they are the ones administering just as surely as an executioner when they put a noose around someone's the convict's neck , someone's the convict's neck, the drug that kills well, and that's quite, that's quite

important , that's quite, that's quite important, because in oregon there have been quite a number of cases when the drugs haven't worked immediately. >> it's been horrific that , >> it's been horrific that, killing people is not always a smooth process. executioners have found this, but so have the assisted suicide people as everyone talks about. it's a dignified death, but that is not a dignified. >> and you also get cases. 87 year old lady who had expressed in the netherlands her desire to die, but she wanted it to be at a time of her choosing. and the doctor killed her. right. and when he appealed, this was illegal. he won the case when we talk about a slippery slope in the places where it has been legalised canada, netherlands, there are examples where the slippery slope is very much happened and people younger and younger , lesser and lesser younger, lesser and lesser threshold for the types of conditions that you need. >> however, i do think that we are being perhaps a little bit black and white, and if this were to go through a proper debate and into legislation, there would be big restrictions. so perhaps you'd have to have a

terminal illness, you'd have to be in the last six months of your life, potentially with alzheimers , dementia, that type alzheimers, dementia, that type of condition, we'd have to really be very, very meticulous in the way that this was legislated, if it were. >> all right. well, i'll make one final point, because the proponents always accuse people like me of pretending religion doesn't guide us. of course, religion guides me that we have souls. that's why we're not animals. and we are precious to god. and it is for him to decide when our life should end. on top of all the practical arguments, thank you to my panel. coming up next. we have found some claims in need of verification from the pubuc in need of verification from the public service broadcasters. so—called disinformation unit, bbc verify the claims were made on none other than the bbc. and speaking of unverified claims, a michelin starred chef has scandalously claimed fish and chips are overrated

.on . on well, i'm delighted you've come back and your mailbox is so brilliant that i've had to have one explained to me. so neil says, hats off to your rolling headune says, hats off to your rolling headline writer for the strapline won't get fooled again . above the who pandemic treaty headune. . above the who pandemic treaty headline . i don't know, some of headline. i don't know, some of you may be as ignorant as i am, but apparently the who is a provider, purveyor or was of popular music who had a record called won't get fooled again . called won't get fooled again. varne. so very well done to daniel klein, who wrote that and put it across and is so much better informed on these things than i am. and jeffrey says my worry is it will be abused .

worry is it will be abused. that's assisting dying. just like in canada. that's assisting dying. just like in canada . well, it's hard like in canada. well, it's hard to believe that the bbc took the bold decision about a year ago to spend millions of pounds of your money on a disinformation unit known as bbc verify. the stated aim of which is, quote, fact checking, verifying video, countering disinformation, analysing data and crucially, explaining complex stories in the pursuit of truth. the bbc, attempting to become the arbiter of facts, was always going to fall apart . and laura kuenssberg fall apart. and laura kuenssberg sunday programme a week ago illustrated this in a discussion about climate change. the naturist and television presenter, known for, among other things, sniffing birds, made an extraordinary claim. he said. toby young's daily sceptic is basically put together by a bunch of professionals with close affiliations to the fossil fuel industry. the cereal bird sniffer went unchallenged by miss kuenssberg and it was only after some pressure from toby young that the bbc removed the episode from bbc iplayer and twitter. the bbc issued a

statement saying we acknowledge we would ideally have asked him to present his evidence on this, but in a fast moving live programme, it's not always possible to pick up on every point made by our guests, but nowhere did the statement recognise these claims were simply untrue. surely this is a job for bbc verify? well, i'm joined now by the editor in chief of the daily sceptic, toby young. toby, thank you for coming in. first of all, do you have a close affiliation with the fossil fuel industry? no not at all. not at all. beyond filling your car up with petrol. that's it . okay. and you're not that's it. okay. and you're not sponsored by bp or shell or any of these companies? >> no, we've never taken an advert by any fossil fuel company, they've never, as far as i know, given the daily sceptic any money, we do get 100 or more donations every month. small donations, £5, £2, 50. and it's possible , i suppose, that it's possible, i suppose, that they may be from some people with some connection , but the with some connection, but the idea that the people who put the daily sceptic together , daily sceptic together, incidentally, he called it the daily sceptic, witty man that he

is very funny. yes, the idea that the people who put the daily sceptic together have close affiliations to the fossil fuel industry is just straightforwardly false. >> okay, so he has made this up. now i have great sympathy in these circumstances with laura kuenssberg because i think she's an extremely professional journalist and however good you are, you're not going to know every possible angle that somebody comes up with to challenge them. and the bbc's answer on that is fair enough . answer on that is fair enough. >> well, i think their answer as to why laura didn't challenge it at the time, maybe b but but but where the bbc is at fault is that bbc politics, which is a bbc, an official bbc twitter account with over a million followers, then tweeted out a clip of chris packham saying that and laura kuenssberg retweeted it and it was seen before they took it down. they tookit before they took it down. they took it down after i complained, but before it was taken down it had over 850,000 views and on

sunday it was trending on twitter. so whilst that's a good excuse for why she didn't challenge chris packham in the moment , challenge chris packham in the moment, what's challenge chris packham in the moment , what's the challenge chris packham in the moment, what's the bbc's challenge chris packham in the moment , what's the bbc's excuse moment, what's the bbc's excuse for signal boosting that libellous comment after the programme had been broadcast? >> yeah, absolutely. that it's the second stage that seems to me to be the more serious that yes, a mistake in the programme, dare i say, even state of the nafion dare i say, even state of the nation occasionally makes mistakes and i don't challenge people or i make an error of fact, try to avoid it, but that will happen to anybody. it's then when you promote that and then when you promote that and the bbc, in its apology , doesn't the bbc, in its apology, doesn't say, we're very sorry. what we said, what was said was wrong. >> they don't correct the false allegation often, and they don't apologise for the fact that it was made and then retweeted by the bbc. >> what's your conclusion on this? what do you think this is about? is this just the bbc's big organisation? it makes mistakes, these things happen. laura kuenssberg retweets of the

tweets on her programme. i imagine a pretty standard. i doubt she does that herself, particularly, all fair enough , particularly, all fair enough, or do you think this is the bbc is simply biased in one direction? this packham fellow is a hero of the bbc and they give him , far too much leeway. give him, far too much leeway. well, the second explanation, i suspect, is probably the right one. >> i don't know what the decision making process has been, and it may be that they do eventually correct the false allegation and apologise , you allegation and apologise, you know, let's give them a chance to do that. i've asked them to do that and said that i'm not entirely happy with everything they've done so far , though it they've done so far, though it is a start, but yeah, chris packham is a well—known bbc presenter, he's got another bbc show coming out, quite shortly on bbc two. the bbc said there was a famous memo from editorial policy in 2018 saying that we no longer feel obliged to have balanced, impartial discussions when discussing climate change

and the effects of climate change and linking extreme weather events to climate change. the science is settled . change. the science is settled. as far as we, the bbc are concerned. you may occasionally have deniers on, they said in this memo. i mean, even calling people who challenge the narrative deniers tells you exactly where they're coming from, but they don't feel obuged from, but they don't feel obliged to be balanced or impartial on that issue and haven't done for the last six years. >> how far are you challenging the narrative ? the narrative? >> well, it wasn't me in that context who was challenging the narrative? >> it was luke johnson. >> it was luke johnson. >> yes . yeah. what luke johnson >> yes. yeah. what luke johnson said, i think quite reasonably, when chris packham was attributing extreme weather events in dubai and mali to climate change, luke said, what's the evidence that that climate change is linked to man made carbon emissions? and instead of providing the evidence, he just invented this reason to discredit the daily sceptic, because lots of people who actually fully accept climate change admit that they can't link any individual climate event weather event to

climate event weather event to climate change. well, i think what was symptomatic about this particular exchange and chris packham's slur is an unwillingness on the point of on the part of people who are promoting this climate alarmist net zero agenda to actually enter into a grown up, good faith discussion about these issues. the pretence is that the science is settled . the bit you science is settled. the bit you didn't quote that chris packham threw in luke johnson's face was where's the evidence? not in the daily sceptic. it comes from science, luke, and that was described by his supporters as a devastating putdown, as if the science on this, this issue is settled when, of course, it isn't nothing in science is settled. and it's false to pretend that that's how science works. every scientific hypothesis is challengeable , and hypothesis is challengeable, and plenty of people, including nobel prize winners, have challenged climate science. well thank you. >> it'll be interesting to hear what the bbc says in response to your complaint. thank you to toby. we contacted the bbc to

see if it wanted to update its statement, but we're yet to hear back. let's hope we hear from them in due course. and speaking of misinformation, it would be remiss of me if i did not bring to your attention the michelin starred chef dominic chapman, who has said that fish and chips is overrated . now, although the is overrated. now, although the french are quite good cooks as any, p.g. french are quite good cooks as any, pg. wodehouse reader knows, and anatole was the finest of them, nothing beats good, honest english food, fish and chips , roast beef and and chips, roast beef and yorkshire pudding, bath, oliver biscuits, sussex pond pudding, cheddar cheese all washed down with somerset cider. what could be better than batter? especially if it's bought from the heinz in high littleton? in my own constituency of north east somerset, the finest fish and chip shop you could find . and chip shop you could find. the lesson is don't take any nofice the lesson is don't take any notice of michelin . do you notice of michelin. do you remember the advert switched to michelin? get some life out of that tire . well, you'll get that tire. well, you'll get a fat tire. if you eat all this french food. you're probably better off with dunlop tyres anyway, that's all from me. up next is patrick christie's. patrick, what's on your bill of

fare this evening? fish and chips. i hope. >> oh, yeah. absolutely. but it's gravy with my chips, not curry sauce. i am from the north. right. okay, look, today is a great day for britain. humza yousaf is gone. the eu is copying our rwanda plan and we are not going to be accepting returning illegal immigrants from the republic of ireland. fantastic stuff. i've also got leaked bbc messages from staff to each other. you will not believe what those card carrying labour members actually say to each other . each other. >> well, i think you can do a rendition of when britain first at heaven's command arose from the azure main. it was the anthem of the land, and guardian angels sang this strain rule , angels sang this strain rule, britannia! that will be the message, i think, from you this evening, patrick. absolutely. that's coming up after the weather. i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has been state of the nafion this has been state of the nation and in somerset the weather will be perfect. ideal for eating fish and chips and drinking cider. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news.

news. news. >> time for your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. good evening to you tomorrow more wet weather to come in parts of the west, whereas in the east it'll start to feel fairly warm in the late april sunshine . low pressure is april sunshine. low pressure is still dominating, but it's kind of slow moving , still dominating, but it's kind of slow moving, and it's in these western areas where we've seen outbreaks of rain today . we seen outbreaks of rain today. we will again see them tomorrow, staying fairly damp overnight across south wales, southwest england, the rain easing a little across parts of scotland, the heavy showers also easing in northern ireland, at least for a time, staying largely clear across east anglia and the southeast. temperature wise, a bit warmer than recent nights , bit warmer than recent nights, most urban areas at least staying up at 7 to 10 c. on to tuesday . and as i said, it's a tuesday. and as i said, it's a bit of an east west split. we'll start with a lot of cloud across northern england, but i'm hopeful it'll brighten up here. there will be further rain for wales and northern ireland. some heavy rain as well, the yellows and the reds in there and also fairly wet for parts of southwest england. pretty gusty in these western areas as well.

a few showers in western scotland, but a good part of scotland, but a good part of scotland dry much of northern england, the midlands, east anglia and the southeast having a fine old day and it will feel a fine old day and it will feel a bit warmer as well. look at those temperatures 17, 18, maybe even 19 celsius. but still on the cool side where we've got the cool side where we've got the cloud and the breeze and the outbreaks of rain further west from that area of low pressure that does pull away, allowing some warmer weather to move in over the next few days. but it is not going to be dry everywhere. there will still be some heavy rain around. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news

gb news. >> good evening. i'm ray addison in the gb newsroom. headliners is coming right up. but first, our top stories this evening and

we start with some breaking news.