want crossing their border. they want to be able to send these people back to this country should they be able to or not. and a tory mp has detected to the labour party. he's a doctor and apparently wants to be able to look his colleagues in the eye. fascinating. but should your mp be able to detect to a different be able to defect to a different party without a by—election automatically having to be called? and i confess , i want called? and i confess, i want the right to be able to choose when i die. do you? the assisted dying bill is being debated in parliament, right now, and i can tell you my panel have completely different views on it, and humza yousaf has resigned. do you care ? i've got resigned. do you care? i've got all our and more, but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines. >> thanks, michelle. i'm ray addison in the gb news room. our top stories. the snp will hold a leadership contest after the

scottish first minister announced his resignation . humza announced his resignation. humza yousafs admitted that he underestimated the level of upset that he would cause by cutting political ties with the greens. he will now continue in his post until a replacement can be found. an emotional mr yousaf says he's quitting to help repair relationships across the political divide. >> no ella whelan certainly bear no grudge against anyone. politics can be a brutal business. it takes its toll on your physical and mental health. your family suffer alongside you. i am in absolute debt to my wonderful wife , my beautiful wonderful wife, my beautiful children and my wider family for putting up with me over the years. i'm afraid you will be seeing a lot more of me, from now on. now on. >> now on. >> the race to replace humza yousaf starts now . former deputy yousaf starts now. former deputy first minister john swinney says he's considering it carefully. >> i've got lots of things to

think about and there's the whole question of my, my family and i have to make sure that i do the right thing by my family. they're precious to me. i have to do the right thing by my party and by my country. so there's lots to be thought about and i'll give all of that consideration in the days to come. >> two men have appeared in court charged with murder after a torso was found in a nature reserve in salford. the 68 and 42 year olds spoke only to confirm their names and dates of birth. with the help of polish translators . greater manchester translators. greater manchester police believes that human remains at three other locations belong to the same victim , a man belong to the same victim, a man in his 60s. the initial discovery was made by a member of the public at kersal dale wetlands. more than three weeks ago. a man has admitted killing ago. a man has admitted killing a pensioner who was on a mobility scooter in west london. 87 year old thomas ohalloran was stabbed in the neck and chest in

august of 2022. lee bowyer committed what was described as a motiveless attack just five days after being released from prison. he denied murder but pleaded guilty to manslaughter by diminished responsibility. dozens of migrants have been rescued from the channel after their small boat got into difficulties off the french coast. now it's understood a number of people were pulled from the water and taken to the port at calais. the latest rescue operation comes after senior border force officials raised concerns that people in small boats are using children as human shields to evade police. last week, over 900 migrants crossed to the united kingdom . a debate on whether kingdom. a debate on whether assisted dying should be legalised for terminally ill people is underway in westminster. earlier on, campaigners gathered outside of parliament calling for change. assisted suicide is currently bannedin assisted suicide is currently banned in england, wales and

northern ireland. in scotland, though, it's not a specific criminal offence. but those who help others to end their own lives do risk being charged with murder. opponents say vulnerable people could be pressured into ending their lives , and we're ending their lives, and we're being warned to brace ourselves for even more food price rises with beer, biscuits and bread among items expected to jump. the wet weather means harvests of barley and wheat could be down by as much as a fifth. storms and flooding throughout the last few months have forced british farmers to constantly delay sowing their crops. the warning comes just as food pnces warning comes just as food prices are beginning to fall. that, of course, following soaring inflation sparked by the global gas price crisis . it's global gas price crisis. it's easy for me to say, well, for the latest stories , sign up to the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code it's on your screen right now or go to gb news. common alerts. now back to .

michelle. >> thanks very much for that. rafe michelle dewberry. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, the writer and conservative parliamentary candidate alex dean, and the political commentator joe phillips. dean, and the political commentatorjoe phillips. good evening. good evening to you. you. you're very welcome . you you. you're very welcome. you guys you. you're very welcome. you guys at home are also very welcome tonight. indeed you know the drill by now. it's not just about us in the studio. it is about us in the studio. it is about you guys at home. what's on your mind tonight ? packed on your mind tonight? packed show coming up for you. i'm really interested as well. do you think that if as an mp, you decide to cross the floor. so as we've just seen happen a few days ago, do you think a by—election should have to be called do you think? actually, i do, normally, but not this close to a potential general election. get in touch on that one as well. and humza yousaf, do you care that he's resigned? how interested are you in that story? gbnews.com/yoursay is how you can get hold of me on the website. of course you can email me or tweet or text me all the usual ways, but now you know. we know by now that it does feel a little bit like the welfare

state. the benefit system is, certainly under scrutiny, to put it mildly, from our government. we've been hearing , we've been hearing, conversations about whether things like, anxiety , things like, anxiety, depression, etc. all over medicalised . well, one medicalised. well, one potential, exploration that the government are focusing on at the moment is whether or not if you are indeed receiving certain benefits instead of getting cash paid to you , you could perhaps paid to you, you could perhaps instead get vouchers. i can tell you now, people at home, some people have received these benefits. they're not happy about that. they say that the government is overreach, controlling , alex, do you controlling, alex, do you support this idea? >> i do, i think when the state is, supporting people like this, it has an interest in and a right to, you know, how that resource is being allocated . resource is being allocated. there should be a safety net in society below which nobody can fall . but that doesn't the same fall. but that doesn't the same thing as just saying give people cash and if you're earning your own money, you can spend it how you like. but if you're in your in receipt of money from the

state, the state is entitled to say it's for this and not for whatever you like. in effect, i'm afraid it's not their money, it's the state's, but what have you physically can't work so you don't have the opportunity to gernan your own cash and spend it freely in the way that you would like to, and also that choice has been taken away from you.then choice has been taken away from you. then you'll be using these vouchers to get what they're meant for, not for whatever you like. and i think part of the interesting thing about that is one of the things about the last, piece of research from the house of commons into people who are in receipt of long term disability benefits, was the very significant portion of them who said i would actually like to work. i feel disenfranchised, not because, i'm at home, but because the system isn't flexible enough to find a way to empower me to work. i'm suffering from the soft bigotry of low expectations. here. take this handout and never come back to work in society again. that's not what i want to do. so philip, well, i think it's there are various levels of benefits. >> and the one that we're talking about is the pip pip. yeah, the pip pip, which is the cash one. i mean, if you are

severely disabled or, you know, you absolutely can't work, you are on incapacity or disability benefit and all of those sort of things. the pip thing is much more discretionary. yeah, and it allows people to use it, you know, so i used to work with a woman who had cystic fibrosis quite a lot of the time. she was absolutely fine, but then she would have an attack and she would have an attack and she would need to use taxis. she couldn't use public transport. i mean, she was working, so it gives people an element of flexibility and independence that i would argue allows them to lead more , working lives and to lead more, working lives and perhaps , you know, use it for perhaps, you know, use it for things like taxis in order to get to work, i think there is a whole different issue around this, question of mental health. and i think we have over medicalised the normal ups and downs that we all feel anxiety,

sadness, grief , worry, you know, sadness, grief, worry, you know, all of those things. and whilst we've been over the last few years having conversations and quite rightly encouraging people to talk about mental health issues and not hide it away, it seems as though we've what we've missed is the conversation that is that is perfectly okay to feel like that. it's not an illness . and i think that's illness. and i think that's where we need to do something. and i'm not sure that's something that government can fix. >> i think that's right. and you know, it's right for things to move away from the stigma where you can't talk about such things. but it swung so far now that people sort of where i've got a mental health badge of pride and now i've got this problem, i should be in receipt of funds from the state. well, hang on a minute. in the upswing that we've seen during and after covid, the vast majority of people who've been signed off because of an understandable people anxiety levels going up when we were under house arrest was completely understandable. but people have been signed off. the majority of people for life

from work. and that's what i was saying about the soft bigotry of low expectations, the idea that the state should never come back and check in a year, five years, ten years time. are you still so unwell that you can't work? >> and the awful irony of this is that we heard only last week of the tens of thousands of unpaid carers . well, they are, unpaid carers. well, they are, you know, they're looking after a loved one at home, but if they go a penny over their earnings level, they're now being pursued for thousands and thousands even. and there was a woman talking about it, you know, she she'd been sending in her payslips to dwp for years and years and years. and now they've said, oh, you owe us £20,000. so, you know, those are people who are probably working part time juggling a little bit here and there according to the care needs of disabled or very sick relatives and things. and they're being persecuted . and they're being persecuted. and that seems to me that we, you know, we don't seem to have any consistency in either sympathy or economy.

>> let me ask you this though, right? because many people will be agreeing with them, perhaps some of the sentiment you're expressing, but then there'll be people at home that are also saying, well, hold on, it's all well and good. the tories trying to clamp down on people that are poorly, they can't work whatever. but the fact of the matter is, many people perhaps might be more ill than they would have ordinarily been because they can't access treatment on the nhs. >> yeah, there's certainly an issue there about the fact that we turned our national health system into a national covid system into a national covid system for several years, and the backlog is impacts of what we did in that process. i think when the review is finally concluded, 2026 2027 into covid, i think the review may be quite likely to find that what we did in that in the course of that did more harm than good. that is to say, building up that backlog, making people stay at home did more harm than people got. >> ill know that people can't access healthcare because of those waiting lists . i think those waiting lists. i think it's about is it 1.9 million or something? >> it's come down every month for the last five, so i think

it's at 1.6 or 1.7 now, but it's not good. i'm agreeing. >> it's a lot of we know that they can't access the health care is now the right time to be doing this clampdown then is it just basic electioneering? >> no. so the reason i don't think it is electioneering is that the point i was making about people being signed off for life happening over this penod for life happening over this period of time? the idea that you just get told you can sit in your house and we'll send you a check every month and you don't need to do anything else. i think that's wrong. and it's part of the spur to encourage people who can work, perhaps in a different way to the way that they work before to return to they work before to return to the workplace and interact with their fellow men and women in society is a good thing. one of the most empowering, empowering things someone can have is a job. one of the most empowering things people can have is a sense of contributing to their own lives, and not just being a recipient. >> but, you know, this tory government, the conservatives they invented this system. they constructed this entire system to try and simplify the benefits thing. and they're now trying to dismantle it. and there are other issues. i mean, it's not just access to health care. why

why have so many campaigns about obesity or exercise and things that would make and help us lead healthier, you know, sugar bands, for instance, good quality school meals, things like that. you know, if you're going to have government intervening at some point, saying you can only spend this on this, you know, maybe who knows with some mates that have set up some system of whatever it is they want to spend money on it, why are we not actually doing more to encourage and help people to lead healthier lives? and, you know, there are things like, you know, the smoking ban, which i'm sure has been discussed ad nauseam, but there are other things that we ought to be doing. but in the meantime, you know, as michelle says, you can't get to see doctors. you certainly if you've got mental health issues, you can't get on a waiting list. >> just put some context into this in case you're not familiar. apparently about 2.6 million people of working age currently receive pip every month. the annual cost of pip is

currently around £22 billion. it's forecast to rise by 50% over the next four years, and apparently about 360,000 people get pip for anxiety and depression. let me just ask you this. so, alex, you know, an element of this will be. yes, great. try and get people back into work. but an element about this as well. we'll be looking at trying to, prevent fraud. and there'll be lots of people saying so, you know, the energy and the passion that the tories are putting into stopping fraud at the lectures. i don't mean to be rude, but the bottom end of the chain, are they applying that same kind of energy to the top end of the chain, those billions that were lost in fraud throughout the covid pandemic, things like the vip lanes , things like the vip lanes, perhaps drives me crazy. >> the level of fraud that i am sure we suffered as a country dunng sure we suffered as a country during covid. a number of companies that claimed covid relief that were not active at companies in companies house seems to me 60 days there you there there is a clutch of businesses that you can write to and say, we expect you to give

it back. yeah. and you'll flush out a, a, a non—trivial amount. >> so that's the story. but are the tories going after those people with the vigour that they are? >> i'm, i'm saying to you, i think you're almost certainly right that the government hasn't pursued this vigorously enough. i also think that companies. well, that's a very good question. we're talking about thousands of companies that receive this, kind of this, these kinds of payouts. and i simply cannot for the life of me understand why the tax man who pursues, to your point, people over piffling sums going back years when it looks like the tax man made the mistake, not the individual. but just give you another example . the number of another example. the number of companies whose whose income on their tax has declared was x and their tax has declared was x and their income that they declared relief against was. why? i mean, if you've got that mismatch, then surely you're going to, let's assume charitably , you've let's assume charitably, you've made a mistake. you can return the differential easy to demand that money back. and if the person's got an explanation, then then let them make it. but they were either lying then or they were either lying then or they were either lying then or they were lying there. well, exactly. >> and, you know, it's a really

fair point. it's low hanging fruit. fruit isn't it? get to the poorest people who haven't got the wherewithal to fight it. but you know, meanwhile, all these companies, some of whom were set up just days they hadnt were set up just days they hadn't been trading for 60 days and they were getting government funds for dodgy ppe equipment. >> it's not just these companies that defrauded the loans, it's things like the vip loans. people will be completely still that that has not been focused on, and i just wonder what do you think to it at home. do you think the priorities are right in this government? do you think it is fair , actually, that you it is fair, actually, that you chase, down? i don't know, look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves. do you think we should be tackling this, end of the scale? and are we focusing enough on the bigger end of the scale? tell me briefly, though, joe, what's your what's the labour party's thoughts on all this benefit stuff? >> they've said they'll have a look at it. i mean, i'm not a spokesperson for the labour party, but. >> no, but you used to advise them. do you think they're strong enough? no i didn't. oh lib dems sorry. it's calling you the labour party. i've got no

idea. scarlett mccgwire i know you do. >> you often do. >> you often do. >> but where do you think the labour party are on this? well, they people are saying that there's not enough distinction and differentiation between, the labour party and the tories. well, do you think they're harsh enough on this issue, they have said they'll look at it. and i think just to go back to alex's point, who says this isn't electioneering? it is because it's precisely to push labour into, well, what's your position? >> i can tell you the labour party position will be to avoid it because i don't want to upset people who are on benefits or have great sympathy for those who are and on the other hand, they won't want to anger those who want to clamp down on benefits so they'll avoid it. well, they're playing small target on everything. >> well, there you go. i'll tell you someone that is, angry today. and that is, many of the leaders in ireland, they're basically saying now that they've become some kind of scapegoat, some kind of loophole for people now crossing into ireland because they're terrified, apparently, or the rwanda plan. they want to be able to send these migrants back to the uk. rishi sunak is having none of it. should he be or not?

hello there. welcome back. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. the writer and conservative parliamentary candidate , alex dean and the candidate, alex dean and the political commentator joe phillips. i wrongly said that she was a former adviser to the labour party. i was completely wrong, it is indeed the lib dems. i'm sorry about that. it's the start of the week, everybody. what can i say, talking about whether or not you should get vouchers or cash if you're on, benefits. elizabeth says having vouchers is a good idea in principle, but make sure that the vouchers cannot be sold on for cash. sole, i think i pronounce your name right. on for cash. sole, i think i pronounce your name right . you pronounce your name right. you say, voucher fraud costs the usa fortunes. the vouchers were being sold and people apparently were printing fake vouchers , were printing fake vouchers, ron, there's no flies on you, ron, there's no flies on you, ron, because you've thought of that and you've got the solution. you say, there should be id used if you want to, redeem these vouchers . as, redeem these vouchers. as, victoria says, i think it's absolutely disgusting that the

government want to do this and try and control money in this way, who's this one of my viewers here saying, i really hope that alex, they go , gary, i hope that alex, they go, gary, i really hope alex never gets ill. i think she might change your mind if you did. well, let's talk. asylum seekers, shall we? because we've. i've got myself actually pretty bored now when it comes to talking about the rwanda plan, because we've gone round in so many circles, haven't we? but now , apparently haven't we? but now, apparently the rwanda plan does seem to be effective. that is according to the irish government, because they reckon they're getting an influx of so—called asylum seekers crossing over from northern ireland because apparently they're fearful of being sent to rwanda, they've declared some emergency laws there. long story short, they want to be able to retain those people back across the border into the uk. currently, rishi sunakis into the uk. currently, rishi sunak is having none of that. alex dean, where are you? if it weren't so serious, it would be hysterically funny , when the uk hysterically funny, when the uk said we wish to return people to

the safe nation, they had come from france, uk to eu state, we were told it was racist. it was impossible, it was unlawful, it was unreasonable. it was a fringe position. now ireland wants to return people to the safe nation. they came from the uk . the eu state wants to return uk. the eu state wants to return to the uk. now. it's not racist . to the uk. now. it's not racist. then it's possible and it's reasonable and it's lawful and it's mainstream. i mean, the hypocrisy is obvious . it's the hypocrisy is obvious. it's the real pleasure i take from it, though it does show that the rwanda scheme is working as a deterrent . already. we haven't, deterrent. already. we haven't, as people like to point out, managed to send anyone to rwanda yet, but it's having a deterrent effect. >> and let me just ask you, the quicker then so you're saying that hypocritical and all the rest of it. if you remove that aspect though, do you think that rishi sunak should be able to receive it should be accepting people back, take away whether or not it's hypocritical for them to ask or whatever. >> i won't take away that point because unless and until they agree, the eu to take back people from the uk, we shouldn't accept taking people back from

ireland. >> sir philip well, when we left the eu under brexit, we also left the dublin agreement, which allowed us to do just that and there was nothing on the table and there has been nothing to replace it. >> now you might have thought, might knew several years ago that that might have been one of the things that they put in place to sort things out. you might have thought actually , might have thought actually, that there might have done something to deal with the backlog of asylum claims so that they were processing people more quickly and sending them back to where they came from. if they were not deemed to be have a valid claim. i mean, alex is absolutely right . this valid claim. i mean, alex is absolutely right. this is you couldn't make this up. we've got the irish supreme court which ruled that because britain, because england, because westminster had said yes, we were going through with the rwanda bill, that now meant that this is not a safe country because we could send people to rwanda , which is not a safe rwanda, which is not a safe country. so they're now looking at bringing in emergency

legislation, the to irish, overturn that ruling of their own supreme court a little bit, which is what we've done here by passing the rwanda law, which basically, you know, overturns the supreme court. >> i mean, it is utterly ridiculous, presumably, to get that done. they don't just have to say that the united kingdom is a safe country. they will have to say that rwanda is a safe country , because otherwise safe country, because otherwise in the chain that the supreme court has set out precisely . court has set out precisely. >> so. so you end up going round and round and round in circles , and round and round in circles, and round and round in circles, and the money and the time that has been wasted on all of this. i mean, what is interesting is where are these people coming from? because clearly they're not crossing the irish sea in small dinghies as they do the channel. they are presumably getting to ireland in lorries . getting to ireland in lorries. >> i don't know. and this is one of the interesting points because apparently there's some discrepancy, because what they're saying, what the irish are apparently saying , the irish are apparently saying, the irish government is that about 80% of their recent asylum seekers crossings have come over from the uk, but there's been

questions raised about how have you reached that figure , is that you reached that figure, is that verifiable? and is that kind of particularly accurate. and there are big question marks over that. but of course, people will be pushing back and saying, well, hold on a minute, because the government are successful in negotiated returns agreements, so to speak, with places like albania. we have huge problems with albanians coming over that has almost stopped now. so they are being proactive . are being proactive. >> yes, yes, they are being proactive on some of those things. but albania is sort of it's fairly straightforward, isn't it? but there's an awful lot of people. there's something like 150,000 people who have been waiting for months , if not been waiting for months, if not years, to have their claims processed. now, those people could be working, they could be paying could be working, they could be paying tax, they could be economically active . they could economically active. they could be, you know, why haven't you? >> why have you not stuffed up this is something i don't understand. you've got this massive influx of people and cases.i massive influx of people and cases. i don't feel like the tories have staffed up properly, because if i was rishi sunak, i'd be shouting from the rafters . i've recruited another, i don't know, 1000 caseworkers or whatever it is. i'm sure i've

never heard that you and i have discussed this before, but i think not only should we speed up the process of asylum process , it's not. >> people may come here with the most bogus claim in the world. it's not their fault that it takes so long. i'm trying to explain. it's not their fault that it takes so long to have their their claim processed. furthermore, i would let people work whilst they're here under that status, but it seems to me there's a clutch of things that you can do in the same way that we have sat courts late and early drafted people into, i can tell you, running civil service, answering my question, have they increased their workforce ? no, i increased their workforce? no, i don't think that they have to anything the way that i would do were it up to me. so i'm answering your question. i think i find that honestly, as i can, i find that honestly, as i can, i find that a national scandal, because if you've got all of these crossings, the influx that we're seeing now, you've got all of these kind of ideas, what you're going to do, you're messing around, not messing around. >> but we're spending a fortune with rwanda. surely the most simple thing to do would be to increase if your staffing numbers to process these. >> i'm agreeing with you. if you if you are apprehended having

entered this country unlawfully and you don't have a legitimate claim to asylum or refugee status, your feet shouldn't even touch the ground. you should be straight back to wherever it is that you're meant to go. but just to reassure, just to make the point about how ironic the irish position is. the sinn fein position is that our rwanda legislation is horrific. it's that bad. but in order to get to be able to return asylum seekers to the united kingdom, they're going to have to say rwanda is a safe country. >> i know it's utterly ridiculous. and, you know, this whole thing about process, if you process people and those who were here wrong were immediately deported. you know, as with the albanian thing, then actually that would act as a bigger deterrent because i still maintain that the biggest single deterrent to channel crossings is the weather. >> well , is the weather. >> well, we'll soon is the weather. >> well , we'll soon see, won't >> well, we'll soon see, won't we? because it's about. well, i say it's about a heat up. i hope it is. anyway, it's time will tell. i think the number of crossings into the uk so far this year, i think we're about 7000 now. it's absolutely pathetic that this has been allowed to continue. look, another story that caught my eye. did you see this ? the tory

eye. did you see this? the tory mp doctor dan poulter, he , mp doctor dan poulter, he, defected to the labour party over the weekend , long story over the weekend, long story short, he is a doctor. he was talking about . you know, i want talking about. you know, i want to be able to look my colleagues in the eye, so on and so forth. he then went on to say things like the tories, are a nationalist party of the uk . you nationalist party of the uk. you see, you know, eddie's had no problem looking his colleagues in the eye for the last god knows how many years. but i found it 14. yeah, i found it quite fascinating that now there's an election coming up because he's not going to stand again. i need to make that point clear. he wants to apparently focus on his work, all of a sudden he's got this thing that he can't look his colleagues in the eye. bit weird, but do you think you should be able to defect in this way because his constituents voted in a tory mp? yes. >> i think in the modern age, if you are elected in this country with a couple of very rare exceptions of which i don't think even dan would pretend to be one, you're elected because you're running for the conservative party or the labour party. you're not running because you're dan poulter or alex dean or whatever. so no, i

think that you should have to fight a by—election if you defect in the same way that to their credit, whatever you think of them, douglas carswell and mark reckless did when they defected from the conservative party to ukip when they were members of parliament. i should declare an interest. i've known dan poulter for a long time. he's a friend and he will remain a friend. but i don't understand what he's done. i don't think you should be able to defect in the way that, he has done. and i also don't understand the criticism of the government, which he never expressed before moving to the party opposite . moving to the party opposite. you can often think of a friend, you know, who amongst us has a friend who hasn't ? who who's friend who hasn't? who who's done, done, done nothing wrong in their lives, right? so you know, i would say this to him, as i say to you, i don't he never once said he was uncomfortable with government policy on the nhs before moving. so i don't understand what he's done. >> and also some people might say, if you're so passionate about the nhs, why have you just defected to a party? the labour party, who currently run the nhs in wales and seems to be doing quite a shambolic job of that? >> but i think the i think the

thing about defections is and i as a purist, i completely agree. if you vote in a conservative, laboun if you vote in a conservative, labour, whatever it is, then that's what you voted for. that is the party that you have voted for, the candidate you voted for. but this close to an election. >> yeah, you say that, but it's actually theoretically not because we don't have the fixed term parliaments act anymore. it could be eight nine months. and the idea that somebody should be in i think there's two, by the way, about will wragg and mark menzies . there's a clutch of menzies. there's a clutch of tories who should have to stand down and we have by—election as well actually, who defected to reform. it's more difficult where the party's slung you out and then you join another one. i accept that there is more difficult there, but if you've just gone in disgrace , like. just gone in disgrace, like. >> well, yeah, but you, we you, you we do have the ability or at least constituents have the ability for a petition, which is what happened with chris pincher. so recall . yeah. recall. >> so actually but, but that has to have a parliamentary process before it. and the trouble is it'll that'll probably too take long. but it should happen and

it's foreseeable. it'll happen. and you know both menzies and wragg i think are way beyond the suspension period which would absolutely trigger a recall. they should go and trigger by elections. my point is people who live in those seats shouldn't have to wait eight, nine months. no they should. >> but then there is the question of cost. you know, it's pubuc question of cost. you know, it's public money. >> it's in a democracy. i think you you bear the costs of running a system and running a vote. and i just think it's wrong that people will be effectively voiceless in parliament. well, they were valueless in parliament and menzies, but they'll be they'll be voiced by somebody who's now having been elected for party a, suddenly in party b, i thought the same when christian wakeford went to the labour party. >> well, and you know, you've got nadine dorries, who didn't turn up in her constituency and didn't do any constituency work because she was in one great big sulk about not getting into the house of lords, certainly in local governments. >> and when i was a councillor, there was a minimum attendance requirement. if you fell below it, then you ran the risk of getting the axe. and it seems to me that ought to apply in westminster too. i mean, there

may be exceptional circumstances for people who are sick or whatever in certain, but as a generality, i wonder whether it shouldn't be something that we looked at that in fact , you then looked at that in fact, you then go to the constituents and say, look, your person has crossed the floor. >> do you want a by—election >> do you want a by—election >> i'd be completely open to that, which i think it's not an unreasonable compromise. but even shortly before that happens , i think people this may sound antiquated. people should do the honourable thing. people have no they were elected under this ticket. if i get elected at this election, it's not because of the wondrous ali kadi. it'll be because, for better or worse, people wanted to vote for the tory in their constituency. and if you defect, you ought to do the right thing. and do what carswell and reckless did. >> i've got to say, i kind of really nod along when you say about doing the honourable thing. and i agree with you. i think that people should do that. and i wonder whether there is now become too much ego in politics, because i don't know this fella at all. you know, i've never met him in my life. you say, is your friend, to me, just having the sheer audacity

that you think that you can and that you think that you can and that you think that you can and that you should and that you can get away with saying, look, guys, i know that you appointed me on this ticket, but, stuff you. i almost said something else so you could you could say, i'm going to do this because it suits me. because i think the reason he's defected is because he wants to. he's saying he's not going to stand again. he wants to go into the nhs, and he wants to go into the nhs, and he wants to go into the nhs, and he wants to be able to cosy up to a lot of his colleagues that are probably more left leaning. so it's about saving his own bacon. >> it may be that it may be a rise lord paul, to shortly after the election. clearly the labour party is going to have to make up a load of new peers to get their legislation through the upper house, and he may or may not be one of them. but the reason i was talking about doing the honourable thing is that i think it's a great we probably do have to have a rule now because so many people haven't, but i think it's a great shame that we need the rule, because people ought to know, and they do know really. they know they weren't elected under and they should. >> but sadly, over the last 14 years, doing the honourable thing is something that it goes well before that. yes. it's not exclude davis defected to the

labour party. it is not exclusive to the conservative party. but i'm afraid, led by bofis party. but i'm afraid, led by boris johnson and followed by an awful lot of his acolytes. well, hang on, it takes two to tango. >> the party that you defect from and the party you defect to. and they both know it's wrong, lorenzo , if anyone wrong, lorenzo, if anyone crosses the floor there, absolutely should be a by—election, she says i did not vote for a labour mp. are you in his constituents, then? are you in his constituency ? and i'm in his constituency? and i'm taking it. if you are, you don't support his decision . lorraine, support his decision. lorraine, philip says if he can't look, his colleagues in the eye, he should go see an optician that says philip , should go see an optician that says philip, maggie should go see an optician that says philip , maggie says, why on says philip, maggie says, why on earth would you go to labour if you're not even going to stand at the next election? she says, that's stupidity. i think he's going to potentially advise them. in some capacity. i think he is not running again. them. in some capacity. i think he is not running again . that is he is not running again. that is what he's suggesting at the moment, tony says, can we just forget all the talk about by elections and just get on and call a general election here,

here, here, here? says joe. i think alex will probably have a different i don't i'd welcome a general election as soon as possible. would you? do you think he should go asap? then >> i think at any time the prime minister wants to call it, we should be ready to fight it. and i think probably the sooner the better. i think very few minds are going to be changed between now and whenever the election is called. we should have the fight how. >> now. >> there you go. fight. now, who do you think could win if there was indeed a fight? now, i also, before the end of the program, i want to ask you, humza yousaf. he's resigned. do you care about that? and also assisted dying debated in parliament today. where are you on that issue? tell me.

hi there. michelle dewberry with you still seven. the writer and conservative parliamentary candidate, alex dean and the political commentator at jo phillips. alongside me as we speak, there is a debate

happening at westminster hall. this is all about whether or not assisted dying should be legal in this country or not. you'll be familiar. i mean, i've got to say, this debate does seem to come around fairly often this time, it was sparked by a petition that was created by dame esther rantzen. she got over 200,000 signatures on that petition. hence it is being debated. i will just put my cards on the table and say i am in favour of this being legalised. it's a very sensitive topic. i know you disagree . your thoughts. >> what are you in favour of? >> what are you in favour of? >> i'm assisted. sorry, i'm assisted. i'm in favour. if i get to the point in my life where i'm ill, i don't have a quality of life anymore . i want quality of life anymore. i want to be able to make the choice that i choose to die. ideally, perhaps in my home, in my bed, surrounded by my family and for there to be no legal ramifications for anyone involved at all. >> and how do you want to die?

>> and how do you want to die? >> calmly, peacefully ? vie if >> calmly, peacefully? vie if you're going to say, do i want to be injected or have a pill, i don't really care. whatever those medical professionals deem is the right way. >> so here's the problem. the debate about euthanasia isn't about letting people choose when to die . it's asking the state to to die. it's asking the state to take an active part in killing them. it's asking doctors to take an active part in ending their lives. so in your example, it's not just about you, although the most important person in the situation is the person in the situation is the person who, in your example, wishes to die. it's about changing the nature of the relationship between society and medicine . you have your own medicine. you have your own views about when you might like your life to end. i say you've got no right to make someone else kill you. >> okay , so then if i was to >> okay, so then if i was to push you on your argument, then so your issue is the states, i.e. an nhs doctor having to do this. so if it was a private doctor who was comfortable with that being a practice, does that change your mind. no it doesn't, because what i said was it would change the nature of the relationship between society and

medicine. >> and people get very hot on. look, it's a very emotive issue. right. but i think people , try right. but i think people, try to undermine the point about things like the hippocratic oath, because doctors don't stand up and swear that they first do no harm, and i won't administer , any noxious administer, any noxious substance to somebody . but it substance to somebody. but it informs our understanding of what medicine is , that a doctor what medicine is, that a doctor will always try to heal you rather than kill you . and as rather than kill you. and as soon as a doctor, some doctor in the united kingdom state or private, licensed by by whoever, as soon as the doctors start killing patients, a whole raft of society , vulnerable people, of society, vulnerable people, older people will wonder when they go to the doctor . is the they go to the doctor. is the doctor going to kill me? >> joe, i want to bring you in. well i don't i think that makes it extreme. >> it's not about killing people. it's about people having choice. we can have a choice. you know, when we're having a baby, we can have a choice to have a caesarean or not. we can bookitin have a caesarean or not. we can book it in on the day that we want. we can have a choice about whether to have a vaccination or not. we can have a choice about all sorts of medical treatment.

i think , you know, but dying is i think, you know, but dying is a bit different. dying is different. but in a way, what you're doing is you're not legalising it, but you're taking, i think, what what esther rantzen so eloquently has said, it's more about taking away the risk of prosecution. so there she is. she's clearly still completely firing on all cylinders. she's incredibly articulate about it. she's got stage four lung cancer. she knows she's going to die. she wants to die on her own terms . wants to die on her own terms. but at the moment she either has to go to dignitas in switzerland on her own, or if she takes any of her family with her, the chances are that they could be arrested on their return for assisting suicide. now, you know, that seems fundamentally wrong. if that's what she wants and has agreed with her family , and has agreed with her family, they shouldn't be prosecuted. >> so i respect joe greatly, and i listened very carefully to what you said , and you began by what you said, and you began by saying, it's not about killing people, it's about choice . and people, it's about choice. and you're wrong. it is about killing people. and you, you

duck the issue. people duck, society ducks the issue. when we try to avoid the reality of what this is . and part of the problem this is. and part of the problem is that we debate from the best model your life. esther rantzen's life, whatsoever. and the best model isn't the right place to start. the best place to start is often the worst model. when someone's family doesn't want the best for them, when those around them don't love them, don't care for them, they're an inconvenience . and they're an inconvenience. and those people who will be shuffled off this mortal coil are those i worry about. and it's not when the issue is controversial that these things get analysed, it's when it's banal get analysed, it's when it's banal. when these things are normal, commonplace in society, that's when i really worry about people being killed by the state or by doctors. >> you said that people are shying away from it and they're not accepting it for what it is. i don't shy away from it. i would absolutely want someone to kill me. i don't shy away from the terminology. it doesn't make me cringe. i'm not, you know, we no longer prosecute people for killing themselves, but you've got no right to make someone kill you. no, i wouldn't have a

right to force somebody who doesn't want to do it. i wouldn't imagine that i could just rock up to anywhere and say, right, you, it's my time to shuffle off. can you sort me out? a lot of people want to do that. and actually, i listened to a palliative care nurse this morning and she was saying that even if this became law, she would refuse to do that because she feels passionately that she wants to help people live to begin with and trying to maintain that position once, killing patients is commonplace, i think it would be extremely difficult. >> but doctors who don't want it's about the prosecutions and it's about the prosecutions and it's about the way the law is at the moment . the moment. >> i mean, you've just mentioned, you know, very valid point. it used to be illegal to commit suicide, which is utterly bonkers and inconceivable for us to imagine, and had all sorts of ramification options if somebody killed themselves in terms of, you know, life insurance policies and things like that and stigma , and things. and i and stigma, and things. and i just think there has to be a better way. there has to be a

kinder way , that we can do that. kinder way, that we can do that. and maybe we just keep talking about it, linda says i completely agree with assisted dying rather than being left to suffer . but dying rather than being left to suffer. but paul dying rather than being left to suffer . but paul says assisted suffer. but paul says assisted dying would be giving the nhs a licence to kill. he says what next? they'll be trying to bump off bed blockers, no doubt , bill off bed blockers, no doubt, bill says michelle, only god should decide to take life. although it's terrible, you might not agree, he says it's god who has the last word and will decide the last word and will decide the outcomes. what do you make to it all? get in touch with me and let me know. also, you might have noticed this today . was have noticed this today. was that yusef? he's quit as the first minister of scotland. do you care? and do you actually think that all this mess in scotland might perhaps. i don't know , make it easier for keir know, make it easier for keir starmer to get a bit of a faster track into downing street, perhaps, i don't know, you tell me. see you in two.

i >> -- >> hi there. hum >> hi there. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. alex dean and joe phillips remain along side me. that has really sparked a big response from , all of you guys response from, all of you guys at home. you're very, very divided , as i would perhaps divided, as i would perhaps expect you to be. patricia says unless you've been in that position with your with yourself or a family member, you don't have a point, she says, lots of people flagging paul flags. have you seen what goes on, in a variety of the countries . and variety of the countries. and when it comes to, the rules being expanded, he says warning signs should be flagged, another one of my viewers says, michelle, you're coming across very selfish , in this debate, very selfish, in this debate, when it comes to assisted dying, it is obvious you are only considering yourself. yes, paul , considering yourself. yes, paul, when it comes to my death, forgive me. i am indeed selfish . forgive me. i am indeed selfish. and i think the person that should have the, overwhelming

votes as to how my life ends is me. i don't think. >> i don't think he was. i don't think he was selfish. i think that you were talking about the importance of dignity to you. and the point is, there is a conflict here between the duty of medicine to try to maintain a patient's dignity and to maintain the clear, bright line on the right to life. and for me, if there's a conflict between those two, in the end, with no disrespect meant to the individual, the right to life wins out over the dignity. >> and therein is the debate. and of course, the disagreement between alex and i. let me ask you this about humza yousaf. you will have seen that he after saying on friday, i'm going to stand and i'm going to fight, i will continue as the first minister of scotland. about 72 hours later, he stood there pretty much in tears, resigning. that was very short fight, wasn't it, what do you make of that news in scotland ? that news in scotland? >> first of all, alex salmond was first minister of scotland and was arrested by police scotland. nicola sturgeon was first minister of scotland and was arrested by police scotland. humza yousaf was first minister of scotland and was not arrested by police scotland. this is a

significant achievement. he is the first and only first minister not to have been arrested, so far, and it's clearly a demonstration of the bigotry and bias of english nationalist news that we don't reflect it in that way. it would . it'sjust reflect it in that way. it would . it's just hysterical what's happened with this guy. he reminds me of the man in the cartoon who saws off the branch he's sitting on on the tree. because he goes into coalition with the greens. he says the coalition is worth its weight in gold, which is an interesting metaphor for something that doesn't have any weight. so that might be because it's a concept, but it might actually be quite telling about his view. he then dumps the people who gave him his majority, and then turns around and says, i can't believe it. i haven't got a majority. i mean, it's actually hysterical and just on smarts alone. he no longer deserves to be first minister. jeff i think the snp have just run out of steam, actually . actually. >> and i think, you know, despite the fact that both nicola sturgeon and alex salmond, well, maybe there's a truth , isn't there, in the old truth, isn't there, in the old truism that all political careers end in failure. be careful, alex, before you even start . so don't worry, you've start. so don't worry, you've got a while. but you know, both

alex salmond and nicola sturgeon were very charismatic. the snp absolutely ripped through scotland, you know, put the labour party into absolutely nothing. they've been in power for the best part of 20 years. they've run out of steam. they're not in a position to lead. other than as a minority government. so they've either got to do a deal or keep going on this sort of, supply and demand thing, which is not a way to run a stable country. it's great news for keir starmer because, you know, just as labour used to take the votes for scotland and they'd weigh them, the snp took that away from them. and now the tables have probably turned back, i think, you know, probably lib dems as well will be feeling some hope and possibly the conservatives in scotland, who knows. i mean, there are weirder things that have happened, but i think he was stuck. he'd got a poisoned chalice and they've run out of steam, anyone out there going to miss him, i think he certainly regrets. isn't he saying that, ash? regan? what did he say she was? it was not

such a big deal to remember when she essentially went. he was certainly regretting that, wasn't he? but do you think as well. i'll let you ponder this one. do you think that's put a kind of nail in the aspiration, then, of an independent scotland as it set that cause back? and would you care, actually if scotland did decide to be independent, your thoughts on that. you could ponder it overnight. lots of you're still getting in touch about assisted dying. i'm telling you, massive disagreement among, viewers at term that debates will continue, i'm sure, for another day. but for now, joe and alex, that's all i've got time for. thank you.thank all i've got time for. thank you. thank you to you at home. don't go anywhere, though. farage is up next night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> time for your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. good evening to you tomorrow more wet weather to come in parts of the west, whereas in the east it'll start to feel fairly warm in the late

april sunshine. low pressure is still dominating , but it's kind still dominating, but it's kind of slow moving and it's in these western areas where we've seen outbreaks of rain today. we will again see them tomorrow . staying again see them tomorrow. staying fairly damp overnight across south wales, southwest england , south wales, southwest england, the rain easing a little across parts of scotland. the heavy showers also easing in northern ireland, at least for a time. staying largely clear across east anglia and the south—east. temperature wise , a bit warmer temperature wise, a bit warmer than recent nights, most urban areas at least staying up at 7 to 10 c. on to tuesday. and as i said, it's a bit of an east west split. we'll start with a lot of cloud across northern england, but i'm hopeful it'll brighten up here. there will be further rain for wales and northern ireland, some heavy rain as well. the yellows and the reds in there and also fairly wet for parts of southwest england. pretty gusty in these western areas as well. a few showers in western scotland, but a good part of scotland dry much of northern england, the midlands, east anglia and the southeast having a fine old day and it will feel a bit warmer as well. look at those temperatures 17,

18, maybe even 19 celsius, but still on the cool side where we've got the cloud and the breeze and the outbreaks of rain further west from that area of low pressure that does pull away, allowing some warmer weather to move in over the next few days. but it is not going to be dry everywhere. there will still be some heavy rain around. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. i'm christopher hopein >> good evening. i'm christopher hope in for nigel farage tonight. he's on his way for a well—deserved break in america. but lots to discuss. first, after irish and uk ministers met this morning to discuss the influx of asylum seekers coming from northern ireland. downing street says it will not take

back migrants from ireland. we look at what happens next in scotland after the snp leader, humza yousaf quit earlier today, triggering a search for a successor and a new scottish first minister. and after more than 200,000 people signed a petition backed by a terminally ill broadcaster, dame esther rantzen mp , today debated in rantzen mp, today debated in parliament whether dying people should be able to ask for medical assistance to end their lives. we'll discuss all that and more after the news with ray allison . allison. >> thanks, chris. good evening. our top stories tonight. the snp is preparing for a leadership contest after the scottish first minister announced his resignation. humza yousafs admitted that he underestimated the level of upset that he would cause by cutting political ties with the greens. he will now

continue in his post until a replacement can be