commit to longer-term areas so we can see any changes over time. it was a better idea to get information about students and help them towards their future careers and also to see to what degree they feel their schooling experiences have been positive or negative and if there are any questions we can ask in order to better say, what can be done to help increase the positive experiences they are having in school and in learning, and also how to mitigate or address some of the negative areas >> we are going to leave this as we take you live to a discussion with former presidential counselor kellyanne conway on the role abortion issues are playing in the 2024 presidential race. introduction is underway. >> -- to be the running mate of

future president trump. your argument than was that trump needed to pick someone from the midwest, someone who could help break the blue wall which you successfully did. this time around you are saying he should pick a person of color. so the question, what has changed? >> i would say many things. i wrote a lengthy op-ed a couple months ago about who should be president trump number two. i named probably 15 people. there are people i would put on lake senator bill hagerty of tennessee, for example. i know there are people about putting rfk on his ticket, the crowding out biden's ability to win back some of those democrats that were purged from the democratic party because they purged rfk jr. from the democratic party and forced into run as an independent. but in my op-ed, i make the

argument i make now. women rising in this country, particularly in politics and elsewhere. but he doesn't need to do that. we are all paying the cost dearly. if you look at even kamala harris, there doesn't seem to be much on her schedule most days or most weeks. president trump to pick a woman if he wants but as i state the case to you, donald trump beat the would-be be first female president of the united states of america, hillary clinton, when a majority of the voters were female. he basically had a majority of the electorate since about 1964. so i think putting this all in the little demographic boxes based on race or age or gender, economic status, geography, even past political behavior is limited and 2024 is probably the year that will show that in a

major way. i do believe that donald trump will have monster return, monster gains among some of the minority population, particularly hispanic and african-american males. all the polling shows that. if he has marco rubio or byron donalds, ben carson, tim scott on the ticket, that would obviously help what is already happening, which is a migration away from the democratic party by some of its core constituents over to president trump in some of the major polls. there are other people i mentioned like mike pompeo, tom cotton, people i think would be seen as -- category. i think there is no went to the choices that donald trump has, but i will say i think my argument in 2016 for mike pence was that he had evangelical

christians and other churchgoers, folks who didn't really know a lot about his politics, maybe concerned about how he would be with the federal courts, concerning how he may be on abortion and life, and als it was really about geography. it is not about biology or anything. chemistry is about math and science. you need more electoral votes than the other person. maybe rick snyder at the time, all republican governors of the states of which i speak, -- blue wall is real. i think it is more about who will be with donald trump on the ticket, who will help him win, who will help them govern, and

who can be ready on day one host: we are having some technical difficulties but we will just power through it. let me ask you about mike pence. he has taken a pretty sharp turn in recent weeks after running against trump for the nomination. he won't endorse trump for the ticket because trump's "pursuing an agenda that is at odds with conservative agenda be governed by." does mike pence have a point? >> mike pence's point, he is welcome to make it and i'm very happy that he served four years as a very dutiful, loyal and aligned vice president. i know when vice president pence disagreed with the direction or maybe some of the cabinet level advice that president trump was receiving on a particular issue, that vice president pence

expressed that hesitation or disagreement privately, and that is the way to do it. i think they had four years of a very successful administration, particularly pre-covid. but even then when mike pence took on the difficult task of heading up the coronavirus task force, after that it would be known more publicly or popularly as covid-19, but every day listening to the doctors, listening to private sector, public sector, it was vice president pence who was in charge of that. he's welcome to disagree. i think there is an argument to be made for a federal minimum standard, not a ban, because ban is a four letter word for a federal minimum standard on abortion. and the reason that is, if you are president trump and you have very consistently said that your own position on abortion is your prayer life with exceptions for rape or incest or life of the

mother instances, and you start with the three exceptions and even president trump has said he thinks 10 weeks is too early, so if he feels that way, the 10 or 12 states where there is a portion only to save the life of the mother, including over the weekend, that is on the one hand. on the other hand, you have states like california, illinois, new york, new jersey, or colorado where these are very persistent practices. i think that you have a national minimum standard for that is something that is wise. when i hear people in washington say this is only a state issue, washington should have no role here, number one, biden and harrison the last two weeks have said washington does have payroll.

the vice president doesn't do that much because she went all the way to -- and president biden just this week -- something that reproductive health, so they wanted to be a federal issue. and i would say to those who say there is no federal, then why are we talking about policing and crime? those are quintessentially local issues. we want everybody in washington to talk about everything meaning bringing voice and physically to the issues that americans say are vexing and perplexing them. i'm not surprised that vice president pence ran for president against president trump this last time disagrees. on tiktok, vice president pence has laid down a lot of money, seven-figure project running ads supporting the band of tiktok and its sale to an american company. president trump has been very forward facing, he put it on truth social saying don't make

these other tech companies more powerful, that is where people go. i think he is pointing out the irony if not the hypocrisy that president biden's campaign is on tiktok and yet president biden has said but the tiktok ban on my desk and i will signed into law. host: your pretty outspoken in 2022 about republicans needing to speak more about abortion after the overturning of roe v. wade. democrats were able to get the upper hand. you even look at some of the senate candidates in arizona, pennsylvania, they have shifted their abortion position from 2022. like trump, they seem wary of being seen as a vote for me is a vote for restriction of abortion. how do you assess where republicans are as a whole? what is the downside of not taking a stand on 15 weeks or

not being more vocal on the issues now? it appears to me that what happened in 2022 is sort of happening again. guest: first of all, people should say with a believe and stick with it. regardless of the issue, you should stick with what you believe and he particularly met. otherwise you get yourself in trouble and you're not honest about your own position. the question you're asking me and the question you're asking kari lake and donald trump you really should ask the democrats. whoever debates vice president harris and what we hope will be at least one bise presidential debate should ask her. vice president harris, in your own home state of california abortion is basically allowed anytime, anywhere, anyone. at least acknowledge science. forget about religion or morality. negative knowledge signs?

science has shown us in the state of california and elsewhere that a baby can feel pain at 15 weeks, 20 weeks. if you talk to surgeons that perform ivf procedures on fetuses, the heart, the brain, they invest the size the unborn baby at 15 weeks, sometimes earlier. the only reason you indicted anesthesia is because we can feel pain. i think there is a softer way of approaching this, and i believe the democrats, vice president harris, can you come from 39 weeks over two, say, 24 weeks, where babies are being born in the state of california, surviving and thriving? can you come to a point where babies in your own state they have names, they are part of the census in california like to our , and i think that is a very good way to approach it.

they don't seem to have any exceptions. i think it is a very important question to be asking both sides. whether it is 15, 12, 10, 6, 24, i just believe these candidates should be forward facing, tell you what they believe, why they believe that, and stick with it. but this is my prediction from 2022 it is my warning in 2024 for those not listening and taking what i think is not my advice, solid advice. which is this. if you are just hiding under your desk hoping the shrapnel will hit you, you are not listening to those who took 50 years to overturn roe v. wade. it could take 50 hours for 50 weeks to explain what that means. people were angry, frustrated, outraged. some folks ran to the states but these initiatives. we didn't take a penny from any of them.

i thought many of them were poorly handled. i said at the time and i will say it again. they were poorly handled because were not asking people what they would do, they wouldn't do. in kansas, the name of the initiative is no constitutional right to an abortion, that is going to be hard to pass. if in michigan it is unfairly and deceptively named reproductive freedom call. that is going to be hard to defeat. so people need to wise up, and i believe you have to understand that, understand where people are. understand where the consensus is. michael, everybody has shown they are in the consensus when you talk about either no abortion ever, that is a very small percentage of the population, or to save the life of the mother or in the cases of rape or incest. if you add the dobbs to that 15 weeks, discolored roughly the first trimester, you are up to about 70% of the country.

i just feel like those who -- host: i was just going to say that is a good segue to a viewer question we have. donna of virginia writes where do you see the abortion issue headed in the future, say, in 10 years? do you feel like this is on its way to settling out after the initial shock of the court ruling? guest: it is a great question, partly because you do see some states like florida where there is a ballot initiative this time that if passed would make abortion more permissive than it was pre-dobbs and during roe. it doesn't have guardrails, it doesn't have reasonable restrictions or regulations passed by cash, so it looks like is in response to six weeks which would be more permissive than what we had previously.

there is a point where people say hold on, that doesn't match science, and i believe mostly about religion and morale of the, your core beliefs of when life begins. and of course, those are so incredibly central to the conversation, whether it is between you and me right now, or in the u.s. congress and statehouses. the conversation right now needs to include science. they know the sex of the baby fairly got they see the heartbeat with their own eyes, they see the brain development those who know enough about science, which is where i think some of this debate is headed and should be headed, if people wise up and say this is what i see, i know what i see with my own two eyes, folks can say look. you knew nothing about science.

but you look at a five-month-old sonogram and you are pretending that you don't see the male organ for the baby sucking its thumb or waving back at you? i really am trying as somebody who is pro-life, i'm trying very hard to listen to both sides and try to turn down the temperature so that we can build a culture -- by understanding -- feel alone, feel frightened. they should know they've got a number of choices. i think pro-lifers need to be pro-life for the child's entire life. we should be on the frontline making them more available for people. people should understand that there are resources available to them if they have unintended pregnancies. but this whole idea that we are taking the word abortion, joe biden couldn't even say the word

in his entire state of the union address. harris will hardly say it. they got the euphemisms like women's health. where's cardiovascular disease and cancer in the major killers of women? the major health challenges? we can't just say women's health and mean abortion or freedom and just mean abortion. and i fear that we are producing ourselves the selection to talk about women's issues. i believe all issues are women's issues. economy, war, health care, abortion, crime, you name it, i know we can handle it. host you brought up -- guest: i've never heard the term men's issues. host: it was one of your criticisms of the 2020 campaign and that campaign leadership in the 2020 which he wrote about. i wonder, you are now on the

outside looking in, how do you feel like the campaign leadership now for president trump is doing as compared to what was there in 2020? guest: i look at his 2024 campaign as the best of both worlds. i feel like president and his campaign has the hunger, the swagger, the underdog estimated donald trump, he is at his best when that is "e". and frankly, day by day. but couple that with a presidential record and then you are able to say to america this is a binary choice. life with donald trump as president, life with donald trump as president, life of joe biden biden as president, you make the choice. people will say i was much better off economically and there was less chaos around the world and at the seven order with donald trump of the first

of into not start a new war in 72 years. i like the idea of independence for the first time. or you can say look, i prefer joe biden and kamala harris, but at least you can compare. and i believe that donald trump, his research was not created by as so much cemented by a lot of voters see as persecution. but it was created by the fact that he had this. and we all have the same bias in hiring, why you got hired by time magazine in the washington post, when i get hired, or why we hire people, and it is this. we like to hire people to do a job already done that job that way we can see their product or their work product, we could talk to the references, we can look at the resume, we can interview them. that is what the country has done with these two candidates. it is the first time almost

ever, certainly in modern times that we can look at the record of two sitting presidents work two immediate past presidents and suss it out and assess for ourselves. i like the fact that it is a tight scene. i think president trump loves when we put people on tv. i know they talk to the press a lot, so they definitely have their voice out there. he makes sure that he has front facing for the cameras as well. host: you left open the possibility of rejoining his orbit. under what conditions would you consider doing that? guest: i have a contributor contract with fox news and they promised them so long as i am there, i will not work on a presidential race.

i have to see what my best and highest use is for everyone concerned and seems to be on the outside. i do remain close to president trump, i do speak with him regularly and he knows that i can say one of the dumbest things ever said about him is that he likes a bunch of yes-men around him. that is just not true. and a lot of those folks that called him out, many of them are now never-trumpers which is funny in its own way, but i guess money talks and helps people with their own consciousness. but that alone i would say this flight we remain close. i'm very happy to deliver tough news, but i do it privately and respectfully. and also, we just have muscle memory and i think in 2016, the campaign was that come from behind donald trump underfunded, understaffed, underestimated.

i'm glad he's not understand for underfunded this time for sure, but the only reason i'm saying it is because it needs to be avoided again, and i hear everybody say i don't think donald trump is going to have the same resources as joe biden. that's ok because i don't think joe biden can use his money to allay so many concerns that he can come from democrats and certainly the majority of independents. people are genuinely concerned about their lack of confidence in bidens competence, the agility, the ability, the acuity. these are questions that people have, nagging concerns over the chaotic and immediate withdrawal from afghanistan and everything left behind. wh i the point of having the first female vice president if the women of afghanistan are less free? but the border, there is a lot of churning right now and i say that because donald trump in

2020, they had $1.2 billion and they ran out of money toward the end. so that needs to be avoided. host: just a couple minutes left i want to try to squeeze in two more questions. you mentioned a bunch of donald trump compliments it is term in office. what was not on the ballot in 2020 was what happen afterwards, denying the election results, horrible events of january 6 and his role in that. you are clear that if the court challenges didn't succeed, you wouldn't be president again. how will that play a role in this year's election? how will voters take that in? how will that affect the results this time? guest: it made.

and it may depend on the outcome of some of these cases, but i think that is all being litigated in real time because we have a january 6 congressional committee, we have january 6 investigations federally. we have other investigations federally, and in the case of fulton county which of course now is a mess. so all that has been litigated in real time. you seem the january 6 defendants, i think i read another one yesterday, the house has been litigated, and this is a big wildcard. it everything we've learned about the vibe and family because president biden lied when he was very clearly asked by the moderator did you ever talk to your son about business? what about his laptop? and he said national security experts said it has the hallmarks of russian disinformation, i never talked to my son, i love my son, we know that is not true now.

i think there is so much under-coverage of approval ratings and his inability to turn that around. vice president harris'approval ratings, a lot of that is baked in and has an awful lot to do with people questioning whether he has been transparent and truthful about what has happened. host: the last question, i said i would come back to tiktok. you were resistant to the legislation today that calls for either a sale or a ban of tiktok. what do you think the harm is of what the house, the senate and the president have done today and can you explain what you think will come of this decision to ban this app? guest: sure. let me start by saying -- is a

bad actor -- china is a bad actor that should be held to account. we know -- do we know china came from -- is fentanyl still the number one killer? the list goes on and on. i don't work for tiktok and i'm not a lobbyist. i am against the band of tiktok and i think that it will be thumbs up in litigation almost immediately. maybe 14th amendment concerns. i think it will be slowed down. i pointed out earlier, i suppose president biden is going to sign it into law, so everybody should see that. tiktok, i said this to a very

prominent democratic senator and republican senator. i sit it is truly burning the brains and the bodies of teenagers and i demand that you will return tonight, this is over a year ago, it makes my point, and passed by unanimous consent, this has to stop immediately. i think there are ways to ensure that 170 million u.s. users, of which i'm not one, i'm not on tiktok or facebook or instagram for that matter, we are selling what i did 70 million u.s. users. we are protecting you now. we didn't protect you before, but we are protecting you now. i think people were thumping the chest to say look what we did come we held china to account and yet it is going to be immediately litigated. you know how i know this? a state called montana banded out a year ago. it was never brought into effect. immediately litigated. not just by bytedance, but by

montanans. i'm always concerned when there is kind of groupthink in washington, d.c. and by the way, marco rubio himself who i have at the top of donald trump's long short list for vp, he was one of the ranking members of the intelligence committee along senator mark warner and a democrat, and he voted against that bill. he voted against anything to the border but again, even stuff like that, we will see what happens. we didn't talk about polls, which is what i do for a living. number one new york times bestseller, but i do hope that we can all get less rosy semi pulling this time, whether it was posters on the right to think everybody was winning everywhere, big red wave, that

was silly. 91% accuracy in a year of terrible polling, and the washington post, abc news sure plapoll showing joe biden winning wisconsin by 17 points. you can't do that stuff. wisconsin is never going to show joe biden or donald trump up by 17 points. it is the swingiest of swing states, they each won by less than 1% in 2016 and 2020. i think we should all agree to not use polling as a weapon to try to help people because we want a pure and fair election were the people decide who the next president is. host: we believe that they are. i did enjoy your book but unfortunately we are out of time. guest: take care, everyone. host: thank you very much for coming. guest: bye-bye. host: that's it for us today washington post live. if you want to follow us more, please subscribe.

i michael scheer, see you next time. >> thursday, the u.s. supreme court hears oral argument in the case of whether donald trump has presidential immunity for his alleged role to overturn the 2020 election results. live coverage begins --. our mobile video app, or online at c-span.org. american history tv, saturdays on c-span 2. exploring the people and events that tell the american story. jason stacy and matthew ellington, co-authors of fabric of a nation, a history with sources talk about the advanced placement u.s. history exam, how the exam is structured, provide

strategies for entering questions and analyzing historical documents. seven neglect in eastern, our american history tv series congress investigate looks at historic congressional investigations that led to changes in policy and law. in 197319 74, lawmakers examined events manager 1972 rating of the democratic national committee headquarters at the watergate hotel in washington, d.c. the investigation led to the resignation of president richard nixon in 1974. and that 8:00 p.m. eastern, university of kansas political medication professor robert rowland from president ronald reagan's 1982 address the british parliament. exploring the american story. much american history tv saturdays on c-span 2 and find a full schedule on pgram guide, or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history.

c-spanshop.org is c-span online store. browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. president biden signed a foreign aid package into law with funding for ukraine, israel, and taiwan. the measure passed by the senate tuesday evening and includes nearly $61 billion in aid for ukraine and another $26 billion for israel. the president says arms shipments will be en route to ukraine within hours. >> good morning. it is a good day for america, a good day for europe, and a good day for world peace.