she ended up being so grateful she was make it to the other side because we intervened. >> patrick kennedy with his book profiles and mental health courage sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern c-span q and a. you closer to q&a and all of our podcast on a free c-span now app. ♪ c-span is your unfiltered view of government but we are funded by these television companies and more including comcast. >> are you thinking this is just a community center? it is way more than that. comcast is part of 1000 committee centers to create wi-fi enabled so students from low-income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. parks comcast support c-span as a public service along with these other television providers. giving a front row seat to democracy.

>> up next acting labor secretary testifying on her department 2025 budget request the proposal totals $13.9 billion focuses on creating pathways to good jobs and protecting workers. she has served as acting secretary since march 2023 she is still waiting to be confirmed as labor secretary over a year after president biden first nominated her. house education and workforce committee hearing is three and half hours.

the committee will come to order. note there is a quorum. actingng secretary ms. su i know vice president harris ezell lobbied hard to drop the acting from your title only a vote of the full senate can grant to that promotion. this is something they have rightly not seen fit to do. today marks 417 consecutive day in which you have ledol the department of labor, the dol as acting secretary without the cost which is required advice and consent of the senate. it effectively abrogating the senate nomination process the biden administration has treated the constitution as but a footnote. that is unacceptable. in fact, ms. su of the longest-serving acting secretary since before the u.s. civil war

a record best left unbroken. as we examine biden administration fiscal year 2025 budget request for dol it is important to keep that in mind. these unprecedented times demand the strictest possible scrutiny. to begin with fy 2025 dol budget request an increase to 14-point to billion in discretionary spending to support the quote work." of more than 15600 bureaucrats. by at work i mean showing up in person just five days over a two week span as dol official policy. moreover is the old saying goes the budget is not just a collection of numbers. the budget is a statement of priorities. overzealous regulatory action has been a blatant priority of the biden ministration.

fy 2025 dol budget asks of the average american quote and invest in the davis-bacon rule which will make federal construction projects more unaffordable. quote and invest in the overtime rule which will enforce employers to cut hours. invest in independent contractor rule which will bankrupt freelancers across the country. invest in the fiduciary rule which will limit options for individuals to invest in their own financial future. and, invest in expansion dol power over apprenticeships which will decimate the role of states and further handcuff employer. the biden ministration likes to

misuse the word invest, americans see what it really means. aa tax on workers and business n terms of both time and money. money and effort that rightly belong to the taxpayer alone. the priorities pursued by this administration are detrimental to american workers. job creators and taxpayers. the very people dol should be serving. instead, it dol regulations havs served in the interest of big labor union bosses. that the administration would install and acting secretary to carry out what i see as a very radical vision it raises serious concerns for this committee. do not take my word for it, american views of the biden economy have soured in poll after poll. pew research finds 26% of the electric rates economic

conditions as excellent or good while 73% regards them as just fair or poor.we 22% believe they are better off than they were four years ago. whcompared to 52% who believe ty are worse off. the american people site inflation, cost of living and the lack of good paying jobs as their top three concerns. in other words when it comes to your record of the american people are not buying what you are selling. i see at least three underlying economic conditions that explain why. o first, americans are being crushed under the weight of inflation. groceries cost over 25% more than when biden took office in thee. real median wages have not kept pace. second they mirage of job growh is also subsidized by gains in

the public sector. it is not escaped my notice over ther last two months the bureau of labor statistics reported employment growth in the government sector was second only to growth in the healthcare sector. and march the healthcare sector edged out the government00 sectr by only about 1000 jobs. in 2023 nearly 23% of added jobs were government positions which inevitably will be paid for by private sector jobs. third, job growth can be exclusively attributed to foreign born workers. foreign born workers have gained nearly 4 million jobs over pre-pandemic levels. conversely, native born workers are still down over 1 million jobs since the beginning of the

pandemic. republicans will unleash the american economy. we will curb reckless spending promote growth and innovation but there it regulatory red tape and create more opportunities and skills development. thank you and i yield to the ranking member for an opening statement. >> thank you doctor fox. acting secretary su good morning. i think it is important to note that your service as acting secretary has been verified is constantly proper by the government accountability office. thereor is no question as to whether you are serving consistent with the constitution. so, welcome back. it's great to have you appear before us on may day, a day for which people from all of the world can come together and recognize the importance of the labor movement. under your leadership the

department of labor has invested in registered apprenticeship opportunities for job seekers and championed a pro- worker regulatory agenda that includes erprotecting workers from silica dust expanding overtime protections for millions of workers. ensuring workers receive retirement investment advice that is in their best interest. the department's work with the biden administration to repeal the harmful restrictions imposed by the previous administrationrs that allowed unscrupulous employers to miss a classified workers that independent contractors. which would deny them the benefits of being an employee. such as at minimum wage, overtime, workers compensation, unemployment compensation, osha protections, pension benefits enjoyed by other employees. just to name a few. i also know you are working on self insurance with a black lung program.

since president biden took office, more than 12-point to million jobs have been created. this historic economic progress is indicative of congressional democrats administration commitment to supporting workers, businesses, and families. a perfect example of our commitment is congressional democrats save the pensions of over a 1 million retirees by saving multiemployer pension fund. we also save tens of thousands of businesses from going under. those businesses were legally obligated to pay into the failing funds until the businesseses went broker. we save them too. as a reminder not a single congressional republican voted in favor of this fix even though the cost of the fix was less than a calculated we are on the hook for in future expenses. in stark contrast house republicans have prioritized policies that undermine workers

supported destructive budget cuts the department of labor. we hear committee republicans attempt to discredit our economy's performance under president biden in your leadership. for example record number of jobs they consider that bad economy. under the previous administration worse job performance at almost 100 years. they praise that is good economy. you cannot make it up, you have to look atct the numbers under spiritual practice according to department of labor the unemployment rate of president biden has remained below 4% for the longest time in 50 years. that is a good economy. i also want to remind my colleagues despite what the committee republicans may say, every democratic administration since president kennedy has left for the republican successors of better a budget deficit situation than the one they inherited. every republican administration since the nixon left with the

democratic crisis a or worse a deficit situation than they inherited. without exception. using every microeconomic metric the economy does better when democrats are in charge. today's hearing is an opportunity to set the record straight and set tell the truth. president biting acting essecretary su worker to support workers, businesses and our economy they will continue to focus on concrete solutions to put money back of the worker's pockets. keepe workers healthy and safen the job ensure all workers can enjoy a dignified and protect children from and forced to work in an illegal and dangerous conditions. too that end committee democrats release a new report just yesterday entitled a slap on the wrist. how it pays for unscrupulous employers to take advantage of workers. the report details how employers feel emboldened to violate labor laws because of a weak or nonexistent civil monetary

penalties. monetary penalties supposed to serve as a deterrent and hold employers accountable for labor law violations. today they become in some cases the cost of doing business in other cases no sanctions at all but later this month committee democrats want to use legislation to responsibly penalties toe deter employers from filing workers rights. would put politics aside and work with us to deliver on these priorities. so thank you for your leadership in joining us today. thank you the department of department oflabor for all thate for the workers of america. also i want to thank you for being responsive to oversights made by the committee. we may have heard the committee has sent letters. i am delighted to know you have responded to the majorities 25 boversight letters.

that is how it should be. yo' should be making those responses. and i do not need to remind anybody, but i will bring the previous administration is not nearly as responsive to congress oversight request is this one has been buried in most cases they just ignored our request altogether. throughout the hearing i hope we remain focused on what is most important. improving the lives of workers and their families. thank you acting secretary su i yield back. >> think it mr. scott. all members was to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in microsoft word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after the date of this hearing. which is made 15, 2024 but without objection the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the official

hearing record. i now turn to the introduction of our witness. acting secretary julie su from the u.s. department of labor located in washington, deceived. i thank you for being here today. i like to remind the witness we have read your written statement which will appear in full in the hearing record pursuant to committee rule 8di ask you limit your oral presentation to a five minute summary of your written statement. i also want to remind the witness to be aware of her responsibility to provide accurate information to the committee. i now recognize acting secretary su. >> chairwoman fox, ranked member scott and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to

testify today on president biden fiscal year 2025 budget request the department of labor. the acting secretary of labor i get to travel the country to meet with workers. workers like mariah, a single mom who was living paycheck to paycheck, or worried about how she was going to get by. she went to her local social services office to apply for medicaid and snap benefits. that is where she saw a flyer for a job training program in the pipe trades. today, mariah is in a good union job. she has quadrupled her income. what struck me about mariah was not just how much a good income meant to her. it was the pride she felt in putting in a hard daysme work in getting rewarded forfo it.

and the pride she saw in her dchildren's eyes. it's undeniable good jobs change lives. our $13.9 billion budget request will help more people like mariah get good jobs that can support families, lift up communities, and bring that dignity and pride that are core to the american dream. i want to frame our request under two priority areas. first, pathways to good jobs for all of america'sty workers. thousands of workers like mariah who are in programs that work. programs that existed because we have invested in them. that is why we are requesting investment to develop and expant proven models to connect workers to the good jobs they want and need and employers to that theworkers they want and need. we are requesting $8 billion to

the crude training fund. seven and 50000 people who do not see for yourho college as their path for actual jobs in their community. workers who have high quality programs did not end up with a job search. they end up with a good job. we also seek a $355 million for apprenticeship programs registered apprenticeships provide trainings for the actual skills that employers need. they allow workers to earn while they learn the increased job pathways for underrepresented groups putting women, people of color, veterans and individuals with disabilities. when i talk to business owners and many tell me their top concern is recruiting and retaining workers. a well, the investment in our budget request are how congress they department of labor can tap

into the talents and skills of all of america's workers. and make sure the supply of skilled workers meet the demand. right now and well into the future. the second priority i like to highlight is department of labor mission to protect workers. those most vulnerable to exploitation. they hire 13rk year old to workn hazardous conditions failed to pay overtime for a 60 hour work week. or who put workers at risk of losing a limbs or even their lives on the job. do it because they believe they will get away with it. that w no one will stop them. they can operate in blatant disregard of the laws that congress has passed. not on our watch. we requesting modest but important increases to worker protection agency. we cannot do this vital work without dedicated public

asservants. that waged out investigators to combat child labor, the teamut that ensures workplaces are free from safety hazards. the benefits advisor to answer the phone when panicked patients have been denied coverage for mental health services by the health insurance company. we are asking for $7.5 million for additional staff to combat wage and child labor. an additional $23 million to investigate high hazard workplaces. protect. whistleblowers and give employers compliance assistance. template $7 million for my solicitors office which has been essentially flat funded for more than a decade. the president's request would also help us advance worker rightsdo promote a level playing field internationally for u.s. workers and businesses. with better support implementation of secured 2.0 app help but to help parity act

no surprises active. we should make them real. workers come home safe and healthy at the end of the workday. too truly change lives. again look forward to your questions. quick center committee rule nine will now question the witness under the five minute rule. we asked members to keep your questions sis saint so the witness has time to t answer within your five minute allotment. went to respond to the ranking member's comments about the department responding in a timely fashion. it's really clear our standards on what is a timely response is

very different from that rankint member standard was a timely response. it was also standards a complete response is very different from what the ranking member believes is a complete response. we got 19 hours before this committee hearing. material we had asked for itd months ago. to serve a subpoena for the acting secretary. if we do not receive by may 6 the departments return to office plan which the white house chief of staff instructed each agency to prepare and submit by januar. you don't even follow your own lacks request by your own chief

of staff. this committee requested on march 6. i now recognize the ranking member where are they? >> thank you. acting secretary after months of committee oversight the central state pensionht fund return undr toy 7 million in taxpayer money. accepted when the pension benefit faded. to fund teamsters pension. as acting secretary of labor chair of the board allowed dol to be involved in decision-making. what role did you and dol play an original to recover these

overpayments. >> there is never a point there is not an attempt to recover the payments. the first is there were no monies paid to anybody who should not have received it. the second is, as you know the money has been returned. the third point is they have taken steps to make sure all of the records submitted requests you are not telling me what role you played. >> so what we have played, this is little technical so bear with me forit a moment. when that money goes to the central states the central state have a fiduciary responsibility over that fund. the department of labor issued

an analysis. >> we are notsi interested in te processes that went on. we want to know and i will submit this as a question and you willue need to answer specifically what youyo did in terms of getting back to tax payer dollars for. >> i can answer that. >> i have other questions i would like to us now. and september and again in november interment good and i wrote you expressing concerns about the employee benefits security administration failure. did not provide full answers the question i'm asking you here and now can you tell me committee how old ebs a investigations are? >> well, our investigations -- like a timeline defense on the complexity of the cases. there is not like a statutory

timeline based in the reality that some cases are much simpler than others. there's a plan for. >> i understand that. but you are the supervisor. what have you done personally to ensure they are close in a timely manner? all of our offices have to deal this kind of thing. oxwhere do you step into see? this is long enough let's get this settled.e >> one of things you are highlighting, chairwoman is the importance of the budget request. one of the challenges we have far more cases. >> i'm sorry, as long as people are only coming in five days in two weeks that is not going to fly with me. bring people back into the office. they can come and talk to us about more money. people aren't working. so i want to know, will you commit to providing the aging reports on every outstanding ebs a investigation on a monthly

basis? we want to know where you are. we have our oversight responsibility. we need to know where you are with these aging reports. >> chairwoman, i just want to -- as a ranking member said i want to note we have responded to oversight letters and i do take your oversight responsibility very seriously. you mentioned you asked to respond we getur request my team does doow that it's very common for us to opt for us to respond minutes within hours. >> you are sending does not answer our questions. let me go on to another question. i understand you're interested in expanding apprenticeship spread out to remind you apprenticeships do not exist without employers willing to participate. hahathe departments nearly 800 e proposed regulatory overwi all f the registered apprentice system

is chock full of new mandates on employers. can you name a single burden or existing requirement on apprenticeship sponsors that you remove in the proposed rule? >> one of the things the proposed rule seeks to do, chairwoman, is a light high school programs and cte better with apprenticeship programs. we are seeing both a demand for workers and a desire among young people. and open up more opportunities for young people that's one of the goals. i want to send you a specific question on that and give you a chance of a specific response for an out recognize for five fe minutes. >> thank you very much. good morning and welcome acting secretary su. i want to first thank you for

your unwavering commitment. is this year's second appearance here, and understand? even us republicans and block your confirmation. thank you also for addressing the i raised in the processing temporary labor certificates. the certification for businesses seeking the work basis. in processing time are on time. thank you. your department and your staff for that. continue to have a need for foreign workers. but during my time and office we have work to minimize that. we are seeing that dependents come down. the deeds do still exist. one way to ensure there are sufficient u.s. workers for our economy is through

apprenticeships. for every dollar an employer invest and apprenticeship program they get a dollar 44 back. that is a very good return. unfortunately in the territories and the outlyingg areas only those with wondered apprenticeships are eligible for federally funded registered support programs. with the first small populations. i would like to ask you and we could work with your office of apprenticeship to see where this requires. i appreciate that part. >> yes a congressman, thank you for each of those comments. if i must first start with thank you for acknowledging the departments and my staff who have worked to makerk sure the

processes for something erase of me last time are actually working. i do feel thehe need to say that my staff about 15000 strong work very, very hard every single day for america's workers. many work in the field to do it. many arehe at places of employmt during investigations. their work is incredibly important. and we should honor that. so thank you for your acknowledgment. >> madam secretary the complement is my pleasure. do not worry i'm very happy with that. thank you. but, so can i have your commitment we will work with your office of apprenticeship please? >> absolutely pritchard joint

point about register apprenticeships yes the return on investment is very good. that's partly why we continue to invest in as a proven model. you absent my commitment to work with you on this. >> thank you. maintaining again federal employment service program the recently succeeded and having the house a pass hr 6655 stronger workforce for america act. this includes federal employment service program. which helps these workers and jobs. could you explain how the program works? for a small community is a great need for. >> those programs are very important.

help connectco jobseekers to jos and employers to the people they need. there are services connecting people to training programs. recruitment, understanding of what skills are needed and certain communities. and so it's a very important part of overall workforce. >> think it madam secretary. again we need to ask your department to work with us in addressing the lack of workforce datata to ensure your rules affecting overtime and exemptions the department acknowledges it does not have that data i appreciate the work. and thank you very much for your continued service.

i have othervi questions i may submit for the record a quick. >> think you have my commitment on that for. >> you work i'm over my time too. >> thank you. mr. wilson your recognize for five minutes for. >> thank you very much for chairwoman virginia foxx i want to thank the secretary for your service and we want you to be successful. it really concerns me the policies of the bite administration spend, borrow, taxa resulted in the highest inflation 40 years. that makes job creation that much more important. that is why you are positioned so critical. putting that in mind to the biden executive orders the regulations, the mandates cited these destroy jobs. this is just got to be addressed on the clap topic of reclassification of independent contractors they are so important in our economy.

as independent contractor myself in my life so i know how important it is. it's received 7000 public interest comments from independent workers raising concerns about the destruction of jobs in the new rule. however chose to ignore many comments in the final rule by stating quote the department of labor does not believe there will be any job loss from the new rule." however neither the rule nor the background produced by the department for the final rule provides any backing test of the status of destruction of r jobs. what resource do you have to support the jobs position? >> thank you congressman. since president biden came to office we have seen it 15-point to million jobs created in this economy. at the same time unemployment levels remain below 4% for the longest stretch since the

1970s but we also see real wage gains especially for low and middle income workers including gains that outpace inflation. which means working people the jobsbs created were below wheree were that the jobs created for an recovery from covid wuhan virus. i'mam particularly interested in independent contractors. these are entry-level jobs giving people an opportunity. there has been no exciting specifically of how this rule affects a justification for what is destroying jobs. >> respectfully, sir, we have not only recovered the jobs a lost during the pandemic we have exceeded that number. the total jobin gains are not jt more than that were when president biden first came into

office. but also it is faster than anybody predicted. we have been able to do that in a way that is not sacrifice the well-being of workers meeting unemployment has remained low what labor force participation rate is also at an all-time high across just about every single demographic for. >> madam secretary i respectfully disagree. the jobs have not achieved where they were. the achievement of president donald trump of the lowest level of unemployment in history. for african-americans, for asian americans forin women, for young people simply has not been restored by having new regulations and mandates is destroying jobs for destroying opportunities particular for entry-level employees. another issue that is important that have settled f increase in the last 10su years. i continued to hear from their cultural community and the district i represent unsustainable detrimental situation for them.

what is your response to the agricultural community to say h2 a adverse effect wage rates are too costly or unworkable? >> think it's a very importanter issue. thank you for give me the chance to talk about it. this department, we issued a rule about the adverse effect agent rate. the purpose of the program is to make sure employers have the workers they need. at the same time that workforce does not undermine the working conditions and the job opportunities for workers for the specific questions i think you are asking about are the rule about adverse effect wage rates. recognize some occupations in which the wage rate was higher. some of them are heavy duty operators. they are construction work and

agriculture. >> and look for to work with you on that for another question i want to get to because my time is up. the rules on that make it almost impossible to terminate workers for cause but some of these people are dangerous. so putting fellow workers in danger. the ability to terminate h2 a. i yield back thank you. >> thank you mr. wilson put mr. courtney you are recognize her five minutes for. >> thank you madam chairwoman. acting secretary it's great to see you here today. thank you for your amazing service. again, just to chime in a little on your last colloquy up in the state of connecticutut live roughly about 90000 job openings but our labor participation rate is above the national average is about 64% higher than during the trump administration or during covid for sure. that way we clearly have realized we need to fill those

positions is to close the skills gap. the labor department workforce investment and opportunity act is hard at work right now they graduated 935 trade folks last year. the submarine shipyard that would not have happened if it was not for it. we also have programs in the healthcare sector. i was with a group called cna boot camp. it's a funded eight week intensive program to people trained and certified to fill all of the gaps we haven't nursing homes and hospitals. immigrant population is probably the largest cohort that is benefiting from that program for the agent community we have in eastern connecticut. it's a highly efficient good return on investment turn of job training hours and accelerated

fashion to deal with again it is still a lot of job openings in the economy. that's not what i want to ask about today's i think you know. you came up and visited my districts about four months or so ago. visited with eight nursing community in the state again at the time as you recall while i'm sure we lost a valuable compassionate nurse who was a victim of workplace violence but she was stabbed to death osha has done an investigation. there is a penalty. it's after the fact and a relatively meager amounts in terms of the value of a human life. the department is working on workplace violence prevention osha rule. can you give us ann update? obviously it is something i think the entire healthcare profession is desperately looking for projects thank you

congressman it was a pleasure to be in the district with you would to three rivers committee college talk to people who both knew about that tragedy and talked about the challenges in the profession. we are working on a rule on workplace violence. we want to make sure we go through every step as we always do in our rulemaking. we have completed the small business review. part of that process and are working on the proposed rule which would be coming out soon. also you mentioned the importance of osha and safety investigations. obviously we investigate cases after there are injuries or deaths. but to your point the more we have a system in which employers are motivated to prevent those s from happening before they happen that is obviously the ideal situation.

penalties are not seen as doing a cost of business are not very important. >> thank you and the folks you heard from you were totally convinced your sincerity and commitment to doing this. one way congress could help us for us to pass it work place violence prevention for healthcare hr 2663 has 165 bipartisan cosponsors of passing laws congress with over 240 votes. and really, or the key things it would do is accelerate this process so we can get these protections in place quicker. that is exactly what congress did during the aids crisis to get emergency rules through so today people wearing gloves, disposable needles all that flowed from the fact congress acted to accelerate those rules. lastly we have a billing committee the worker's compensation act which would power nurse practitioners and physician assistants and the federal workers compensation system to be able to evaluate

patients and issue reports that could be connected to benefits. can you talk about the department's physician on that matter kuester. >> thank you congressman paid one of the things we have seen is a lack of adequate metal professional to evaluate those federal workers composition claims is a problem. we have tried to address it. we have increased the number by about 20%. but it remains a challenge. so i very much am anxious to welcome the opportunity to work with you on that.t. >> thank you yelled back for. >> thank you. mr. wahlberg you are recognize for five minutes. >> thank you madamu, chairwoman. thank you acting secretary for being here today. i want to follow up my friend and colleague from connecticut relative hr 618 legislation we have offered to enable nurse

practitioners and physician assistants to be able to practice. which has not been updated since 1974. that is when i was in married those 50 years i've had to update my self over those years to make sure i made it to the 50th weddingth anniversary. i would hope you would support us without legislation. to update so we can add to an evolving situation and healthcare. these component parts that can do a great job. so have your commitment on that? >> yes thank you very much but we definitely identify that as a challenge in the system that creates problems for people who are seeking worker's compensation claims. i absently have that. >> i appreciate that. let me visited two issues have very similar concerns or spin the overtime rule question.

as you know dol recently published its overtime rule. which unforeseen attempts to revive policies from 2016 rule the courts throughout ship. they threw out for being arbitrary and capricious and specifically the rule seeks to impose automatic updates to the overtimeme threshold every three years.rs a policy which witness at our subcommittee testified would likely violate the administrative procedure act because this would not allow for notice and comment on the updates. the fiduciary rule question is almost the exact same. along the same lines u.s. court of appeals for the fifth circuit found 2016 fiduciary rule exceeded dol authority. the department recently finalized fiduciary rule would cover the same sales practices

as the 2016e rule. i guess i have the same question for both of those issues the overtime rule and the fiduciary ruleth why do you expect the courts w will view the 2024 ruls on these two issues indifferently than they have ruled before when they threw it out? >> oh congressman, and the process of making the rules we did engage in the process -- we have listening sessions permit open comment. we responded too and took into account all the different comments. quick said you checked the court record on it? >> yes. we are very confident the rules notco only are within our authority but they take into account the existing case law about why the prior rules were struck down. >> why would these be any different? the sales room and the fiduciary

rule. it's in violation. quick said do not know how much of mexicans the details of each rule. they take into account the rules could not stand. retirement security rule for example is the definition of a fiduciary is different. what is covered under it is different. we want to make sure her. >> i do not read it that way at heall. i do not know the court will read it that way at all. i guess we wait and see. otherwise it's a wasted time. it is concerning for the industries themselves so we are going back and doing something -- like the uncertainty that goes on relative to these two rules back and forth.

these two cases the court determines it. let me move to another one. >> proximate congressman. [inaudible] >> the issues of concern. thesu department of labor independent contract rule will have a devastating impact on the ability of millions of americans toe engage in flexible work in the modern economy. at the work force protection subcommittee hearing in february ori asked wage and hour division administrator jessica about the clergy that we would be provided under the rule to industry section real estate agents direct sellers who are specifically classified as independent contractors on the internal revenue code. she expressed commitment to developing guidance and resources to assist these legacy and compliance. and so, has a small entity compliance guide frequently asked questions document reflected to provide this clarity and is there any update on outreach to stakeholders?

>> so, congressman, or the most important goals the department of labor is to make sure working people in this country are protected. our rulemaking is a part of that. to your prior question had an easier answer than retirement security which is overtime threshold that threshold is lower than it was in the 2016 rule. when it comes to our outreach and compliance assistance,. >> my time is expired will have to submit the question thank you. >> if you would submit youri questions to get an answer. you are recognize her five minutes for. >> thank you. thank you acting secretary at su thank you for being everything get for your work and thank you for your w testimony. thank you also for visiting northwest oregon. really appreciate your visit. all the visit business we did the sites we visited and talked about the v work you're doing to prepare workers, to protect them, their health and their rights and to empower them with

the voice of thete job. one of the things we talked about during your visit was emphasizing the importance of workforce development opportunities. having that path to a good job. how important that is. and the partnerships that are so critical. partnerships between businesses, education, training programs that are really key to the success of these programs. so, while you were in oregon we visited portland community colleges at maga tronics lab as part of a state -based employers including intel to offer programs like the quickstart semi conductor technician training program. also hillsboro advanced manufacturing apprenticeship where we are seeing great paths to goodip jobs. these sector strategies are really important for prospective workers to enter and succeed in the workforce. i am glad to see the president's proposed budget will invest in the departments news sector program.

the employment through career training for occupational readiness. to supports evidence-based partnership models. this is a program i propose along with representatives to be in our community based workforce develop an actor. acting secretary su will you tell us more about the benefits of that sector program and its goals for the upcoming year? an important if you could describe the potential of itsul fully funded? >> thank you so much congresswoman. i was delighted by our time together. and also to be able to put in place programs that you have envisioned. you have seen firsthand how important it is for workforce training programs to be aligned with the needs of employers in a community and to be able to bring all the pieces of the workforce system together. as i said in my opening a job-training program does not end in the search that ends in an actual job. the e skills are actual skills e going to need for the job.

oured aligned with all of that. and so we are recruiting from and making available these training programs to all communities including those who have been shutt out of good opportunity in the past. the sector program is about that. recognizing this a moment of historic job growth and opportunity we should be creating programs aligned with industry need. that is just the way to create the most opportunity. employers coming together to sate here is the field we need. and programs for that are the best way to build infrastructure. that we are trying to build appreciate regards look forward to working with you on that program very certainly do hope is fully funded. >> i also wanted to asksk you we

are experiencing more. extreme weather events. more extreme heat get a heat dealt an organ that was devastating. many people lost their life. when it osha to issue a standard to protect workers both indoor and outdoor setting. without a standard work continue to be at risk of serious mental illness there's estimates show the could be as many as 170,000 illnesses every year including center fatalities. they support and lifesaving efforts? question of excess thankyou cony yeimportant effort that we have because it has become an occupational hazard. butsomething people lose their lives on the job when there are a relatively common sense measures that could be taken to prevent that fromut happening. so we are working on will be the first nationwide standard indoor and outdoor heat to prevent exactly those kinds of tragedies.

we are in the midst of that work now. we are engaging with small businesses as we are both required to do and it is important to do. the sector put out a notice later this year. >> any chance of anything this summer? >> a people often complain about is how long the rulemaking process takes big part of the reason it takes a long time is to be to have to be thoughtful but we have to engage with all the stakeholders. there's a lot of pieces to making sure a rule is thoughtful. it is consistent with our authority and have the impacts we wanted to have picnics i will mention some states are to take an action we need the national national strategy my time is expired. thank you again for your testimony and your work for. >> thankn you will continue too the enforcement to make sure workers are healthy and safe on the job. >> thank you for. >> thank you. mr. grossman you are recognize her five minutes for. >> department of labor refers to registered apprenticeships as a

gold standard should work -based learning. as you are there currently 3500 apprenticeship models registered under the competency competency based model do you believe the competency registered apprenticeships are good programs? >> i am sorry congressman you are saying -- are what programss good programs? >> we are trying but registered apprenticeships. do you believe competency based competency-basedregistered appre good programs? >> thank you congress meant your state's been such a leader when it comes to registered apprenticeships. we have a million-dollar apprenticeship expansion grant to help build the infrastructure to make sure the registered apprenticeships can thrive and work to be about your steak get opportunity. i believeve registered apprenticeship programs are the gold standard they provide earn

while youeg learn so people who cannot afford toou stop earning assorted to train can get into programs they provide for a good job at the end. they provide for wage progression and other protectionse for skill standard. we are seeing across the country right now especially the stork investment being made and construction, and infrastructure coming clean energy registered apprenticeships are the best examples of we have a vapid. >> your department what was the basis for your department issuing a proposed rule that eliminates successful competency-basedum model for registered apprenticeships. nca model and will constitute me than one third of the overall

growth in the apprenticeships in the next decade the own projections. >> again, congressman justin this administration the department of labor has invested over $445 million and apprenticeship programs. another 200 million that's at out now announced in june. we believe in programs that are tested. that have support so workers are actually going to end up in the job they are training for it. and then have real standards in part because the standards and registered, apprenticeships alo give working people a chance to work on the job they get paid but also continue to grow and appeared registered apprenticeships are a model are tested over time. and really have been a pathway into the middle class for many,

many american workers. >> okay wisconsin is a big manufacturing state. we are g percentagewise the biggest manufacturing state in the country. 20% of our workforce or manufacturing. will met with industry leaders a state workforce issues such as attracting and retaining skilled employees is the biggest challenge. the bite administration department ofg. labor has propod increasing the overtime salary threshold by 70% which was subject currently set top woodworker to overtime laws. instead of increasing pay millions of salaried workers to workers eliminate the remote and flexible work options potentially resulting in fewer work hours, regular paychecks and a lower overall compensation. which you comment on the negative consequences of the big

increase in the overtime salary threshold? how you believe that's going to affect american industry? arned l affect american industry? sec. su: there is nothing about a rule that would require that outcome. the reason why he needed the overtime group was because it is really important for working people to get a fair days pay for hard days work permit and our overtime rule helps to ensure that working people who work on a salary basis and have more money in their pockets in a couple decades ago the overall threshold covered 60% of working people in the last administration i got to a point of less than 10% in the overtime protection have been eroded over time because of the threshold and that is why we undertook a role making process to make sure that the threshold combined with the duties test that is a part

of protecting salaried employees what comes to overtime remained real. >> thank you. >> thank you mr. grossman, doctor adams your record is for five minutes. >> thank you acting secretary testifying before the committee again. i had the pleasure of attending a roundtable with you in charlotte back in march and really appreciated and admired how much attention to i the concerns of the new may workers, can you tell me more about the efforts from the workers on the ground and how your meeting with workers across the country and how you formed your budget request be met thank you for that congresswoman and thinking for our time together in your district we got to visit an organization called she built

the city and the idea was to recruit from communities especially women and women of color who might not see themselves in some of the jobs it are being treated and to give them the basic exposure to using tools it would be like what it would be like to work on a construction site to meet with others who have those jobs so that they could see themselves in those opportunities as well, those kind of interactions are incredibly important to me as an acting labor secretary. i think our policies and our enforcement priorities in our budget request all have to be informed by the real needs of working people. everywhere i go they are working people who are looking to find their pathway into the middle class and their shot at the

american dream in our workforce meant to help create those connections and sadly i knew would to be workers that each theft is a regular experience and workers who say their injuries and comment but when 70 gets injured they get fired so they are the ones who are punished and also deters workers. i met with workers who are working on a salary basis, a single mother recently who told me our overtime role is going to present a thousand dollars a month in her packet, that's going to make a very big difference for her and her children which also make a very big difference in her community, being able to hear from workers to understand what they need to get outside of these buildings and outside of washington, d.c. is a privilege for me so in my

role in thet department importt role we can make sure that were being responsive to what workers need. i meet with employers on a regular basis and understanding employers who really struggle with there's not a level playing field or the standards that they had to put in place to recruit and retain their workers are not beingui by the competitors. >> i would ask a couple of questions, we had to listen about the federal workforce funds and subsidize and laborrt violations and it was one several children found working and violation of labor laws and one of them was injured, what tools are at your disposal and what tools do you need to prevent putting children in harms way by firms with records of child labor in health and safety violation. >> is a very important question,

it also ties to our budget request, the reason why the child labor in that situation came to light is because our wage and hour division discovered it and exposed it and held to an employer account and having enough investigators on the ground to combat child labor is critically important. our budget request increased $5 million to that $35 billion for the labor division to continue to combat wage. on the point of leola, what we have done once we learned about it without the local workforce know about it have been working with them to make sure that several fund should never be used in a way that would condone or subsidize any labor law violation. >> many opponents of beale wells of retirement side of the

national association of insurancent commissioners best interester standard and as it sticks to the problem b critics believe when the beale wells were unnecessary but let me ask you could you explain some of the differences and why beale wells rules to ensure workers were just about out of time but i want to enter this into the record manager the csp board ofd conducts i don't think i'm going to have time, you can send me a response to the question. madam chair is like to enter this into the record. >> without objection we will ask them to answer your question in writing. >> thank you very much i yield back. >> mr. allen you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairwoman and secretary of state thank you for being right here.

thank you for being here. with us today. the deal well received a sizable number of comments on the judiciary ruling even though the comment period was far too shord to the significant changes to the proposal and many call for the proposal withdrawal. dol has emphasized the changes made to the proposal based on the input received. however, assistant secretary lisa gomez said there's nothing that needs clarification to the changes that one should interpret as a real change in the position of the proposal, which is it, were changes made to reflect stakeholder input on the role or was it and putting because dol had already decided the desired outcome. >> congressman, putting aside whether we ignored, i think both

things can be true that we take into account comments and we do, i could go through each of the rules that wed have finalized d we not only take comments, we also respond to all the comments and in many of the rules that we do. >> why didid ms. gomez -- are yu familiar with secretary gomez quote to the new york times? in other words the short comment. , it was there onlyoo to make it appear that there was no predetermined outcome on this and yet you have these comment periods to understand how these things are going to affect the business community out there. let me move on georgia represents around 30000

franchise establishments and over 315,000 employees. recently the national relations board systematically reversing the course of what constitutes a joint employer, this had previously caused franchise small businesses over 33.3 billion and a loss of 376,000 jobs, the last time you appear before the committee you did not provide a clear response as to whether the department of labor plans to issue aco similar rule under the fair labor standards act. after almost a year can you now commit to no rulemaking process as it relates to a joint employer. >> i believe that last time it was not on a regulatory agenda, i will repeat that again it is still not on a regulatory agenda and the nlrb is a separate body but the department of labor does not have such a rule on our

proposals. i do just want to say, when it comes to our rulemaking we do not approach it with predetermined outcomes, we take that comment.. very seriously and i don't even know what world topp try to give an example on this. one way that you will see it, sometimes the timing of when rules go into effect are also based on the feedback that we g get including from the regulated community about what it would take. >> again we have the information from the new york times which doesn't exactly match what's going on there. i did a follow-up on a line of questioning that i've not been able to get an adequate answer for for almost a year now. when you testified in front of this committee last june i raise my concern about dol amendment to the asset managers, the tpa in exemption which would disrupt and unnecessarily burden workers in retirement plans to rely on

qt to manage the daily operation and investment of the employee benefit under benefit plan. unfortunately when i brought this to your attention last year i did not get a straight answer you and today i'm still trying to get a satisfactory response. again let me ask you has the department of labor conducted a detailed and realistic cost-benefit analysis of its amendments to the qt a.m. exemption? >> congressman i believe that role has been vitalized and we always conduct a financial analysis of the impact of our rules when we do them. our rules and that space are entirely met to make sure that the retirement security of workingor americans which is ofn the largest savings that somebody has often saved year after year, paycheck my paycheck that that is secure.

we do do analyses in all of our rules that are public and part of the public. >> we need that n information ad i have additional question on a partnership and also with the underwriting, i'm out of time and i yield back. >> ms. jayapal you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair, secretary i'm thrilled to welcome you here today we are so lucky to have a lifelong champion for workers like you leading the department of labor and you really fought tirelessly for working people especially the lowest wage workers in our country, domestic workers, immigrant workers, folks of color but workers who were trying to make it in deserve to be paid no matter who they are and wherere they are. in the last year president biden and you have delivered tremendously for the american people. i have personally witnessed you

helping break stalemates and labor negotiation and delivering critical protections for workers, longshore workers, healthcare workers, graduate students research students in my district. you are very popular, i hope you come out and visit. i also watched you deliver on a top priority of increasing the overtime threshold so millions of workers ultimately get paid for the work that they are already doing putting critically needed money in their pockets. it is a fact, it's truly a fact that you and president biden have presided over an incredible 39 straight months of job growth and 26 consecutive months of unemployment remaining below 4%, that is the longest stretch we have seen in over 50 years, congratulations. i want to clear epic few things, i hope you can help me, do you

believe that bona fide independent contractors play a vital role in the u.s. economy and deserve a place within.s it, yes or no. >> yes, of course. >> do you secretary, does the department final rule on this classification prohibit people from entering bona fide relationships in any way? >> absolutely not. >> doesn't the rural restate the existing casee law? >> yes it restores decades of case law on how to determine whether someone is an independent contractor or an employee. >> does it prohibit flexibility. >> it does not. >> it seems that this rule simply ensures that workers are not unlawfully denied a century of labor protection because the business decides to label them as independent contractors and in fact they are employees, is that correct secretary. >> that is correct and we see

that we see dishwashers and restaurants called into the contractors and workers on construction sites called independent contractors it is both very harmful to working people who should have the protection of minimum wage, overtime, and employment insurance and the like but it's also making it very difficult for businesses who play by the rules to compete and to drive him. >> you talk about the investment and workforce training and just yesterday i was in panama chamber of commerce they were visiting and i heard the same desperate plea for those kinds of investments and workforce training one area that you know i focus a lot on his area of care work they care economy and domestic workers i'm very proud to be the house sponsor of the domestic workers bill of rights, there are two-point to million domestic workers who care for our children, elders, people withht disabilities and our homs

they do the work that makes all of the work possible and despite the essential nature of their work in the high demand that we have for the workforce, domestic workers have long been excluded from the basic protections of the fair labor standards act and amongst the lowest paid with nearly 90% getting no benefits at all, do youol agree that we n government have an essential role to play to eradicate these exclusions and ensure that protections for domestic workers such as those in the domestic workers bill of rights are enacted into law. >> thank you so much for your leadership in the space. as you know president biden has also called or investment in our care economy. all of you in the american rerescue plan act made sure that there were investments that help to keep 225,000 childcare facilities open when the pandemic in 2021 and 2022.

in those t investments help to increase child caregiver wages as well is a recognition that we should not have to choose between affordable reliable care and the well-being of the care workers so i would be delighted to work with you in any way to make sure that those are met and something the president has been very clear about as have you and i and i appreciate how much you raise the importance ofd the issue. >> thank you so much for your commitment to the wreck and workers everywhere i yield back manager. >> mr. johnson you are recognized for five minutes. >> taking chairwoman madam secretary as you know i cochaired the bipartisan in the caucus for more than a decade, since that time with the help of critical investments from strengthening careers in the ar21st century act i champion in the 115th congress we made tremendous strides in helping students of all ages access to

high-quality affordable programs. ones that lead to t certificate, and in one hand diplomas in one hand and quite frankly job offers in the other, very concerned with your departments proposal to expand federal control over success cte programs for the regulatory concoction that you're calling cte apprenticeships. obviously were both very supportive of cte and apprenticeships but i've not heard from a single student, employer or program who thinks it's necessary to combine the two, just because each of these are successful on their own does not mean the department of labor should have any and forcing them together for regulation. i have significant concerns with your proposal as do many ct advocates across the spectrum state purchase agencies and national advocacy association. so question number one did the

department engages ct stakeholders in developing of this proposal, if so how was their input and feedback incorporated into theac proposed rule. >> thank you, congressman it's a pleasure to meet you. i share your interest in how we make sure that our training programs are leading all communities intoo actual jobs that's why there'sy a $1.5 million grant for the workforce opportunities in rural communities. something that we created as an administration recognizing that when we talk about equity and making sure everybody is included to make sure rural committees are not left behind our rule in our policies are not intended to limit the operation of cte programs or register programs our hope is to actually braid together more connectivity when it's needed. again so were not creating training programs that aren't connected to actual jobs at the

end of them, that has been a longtime criticism of the workforce development system and this a administration we have leaned in very hard especially again because of the historic job growth that wejo are seeing, many jobs that do not require a llfour-year college degree of these programs they become. >> there needs to be moral pathways to success with the adage of a sub broken don't fix it in the technical education program today i no longer less enrollment, they're waiting less and it's looking to add programs and adding capacity because of the interest, the proposed rule empowers your department to create industry skills frameworks, the new cte apprenticeships would have to adhere to the department of education is explicitly prohibited from developing opposing curriculums for ct programs you are violating the intent of congress and law by doing what you doing, why is

your department attempting it in this prohibition in seeking to dictate the ct curriculum without the authorization of congress, where does your department and what attorneys and why did the believe where the authority w comes from. >> congressman i hope i don't say this wrong i'm not 100% positive bute to your question about whether we engage with cte providers and others in our rural i believe the comment period might still be open and if it is i would encourage your constituents to engage with us. >> i would encourage constituents across all 35 districts. >> to your second question i think that's about the perkins act which is something under the purview of the department of education, not the department of labor we do not seek to regulate or to change that. >> quite franklyre apprenticeshs are a part of the perkins act we

strengthen within the perkins act and restore the power and effectiveness, let me move on to my last question the 30 states including pennsylvania recognized by the statete apprenticeship and granted the authority to oversee apprenticeship programs in our state, do you believe the federal government understands the needs n of employers in the specific occupation requirements of each of the states better than the statest apprenticeship agencies. >> no, which is why many of the ways that we approached our workforce funds have been to invest in creativity and hipartnerships and efforts that originate on the ground. we believe that employers, local workforce boards, local community-based organizations, unions and other workforce partners who are invested in creating an effective infrastructure to connect people

tofe the job. >> my time is expired and i appreciate but is counterintuitive and completely opposite of what you're doing because yourur department is proposing a rule that would strip states and lose the wonderful state-level agencies that youke talked about it would strip them of their ability to recognize and occupations that are available for registered apprenticeship and forcing all programsst to adhere to a one-size-fits-all. it is a bad role, thank you. >> ms. stevens you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. in such a delight to be in the presence of a phenomenal leader in this presidential election and for the country. ms. sue, your bid at the department of labor during some of the most critical times in this countries -- thank you.

>> all of a sudden i lost my voice. i been sitting here for hours. thank you. hopefully i can go a little over madam chair. i'm okay. i was just on the phone. you been at the department of labor and during most of critical times in this country reset economic trajectory, record job growth during unprecedented challenge and that needs to be recognize as well as the symbolism of your leadership which means so much, not only the workers of this country but to women. and women who were being tried and stretchedhe every single stp of the way seeking daycare, managing 40 hour work weeks and looking for a pay raise, ms. sue i would like to start with the topic that is certainly on the

minds of so many of my constituents which is pension and retirement savings. we have seen pension risk transfers emerge as a method foo companies to partner with insurance companies to manage some of their pension risk and as you know in 2002 congress asked the department to undergo a review of the regulatory standards surrounding the sale of the k rt's known as iv 951 which hadn't been done since 1995. i was wondering if you could the timingu update on for when the department on iv 951. >> thank you so much congresswoman and thank you for your comments. i think it's worth noting to your point that under president biden's leadership, the labor force participation for prime age working women has reached an all-time high since the data was first collected.

and especially coming out of a w pandemic where women were so devastated by so many things including the lack of infrastructures to support the responsibility that women bear. >> i know you can talk about the transparency standards for companies engaging in prt's, thank youw for that. >> at the department of labor we regularly review our rules and regulations to make sure we keep up with the times that's why i mentioned earlier are overtime regulations and retirement security rules and our guidance on pension plan transfers. as you know a lot has changed since 1995 when our pension risk guidance was first put out, we're taking a look at that now. we are still in the review process and i look forward to sharing our findingsou with you. >> we salute your efforts to protect the interests of pension

holders who are at the front and center of the labor market and certainly here to see their hard earned retirement be there for them and also we know we've been at a tremendous moment with regard to the 21st century labor movement and the proliferation michigan has been front and center and we were so delighted to see your boss, not deliver from a podium or large rally but to stand there on a picket line and i was wondering if you could talk briefly about the value of laboror organizatis bring to the workforce to meet the needs of our cutting edge economy. >> i think there is no better way to sayha it that what the president himself says regularly which is the middle class he offers his wall street build it even though the good guys to but the middle-class b built america in unions both the middle class.

that is in part why i'm very proud that we have a president who is providing a moment in which labor unions are organizing in ways that have nop happened in sometime where the outcome of the o bargaining tabe are wins for workers and their employers and the industry that are e represented. and where public sentiment about unions is that a historic high. >> you're certainly playing a role in making sure that unions have a seat at the table if we implement the very historic investments in the democratic caucus was so proud to make alongside president biden and infrastructure bill, things that were not blocking that her delivery for theiv american people, the chips act in the inflation reduction t act as we. >> take you congresswoman, the law says that workers should have a free andir fair right to join a union and the president believes the answerth to why and

unions have providedd opportuniy in the middle-class life are so many americans, including our told this story before but my parents worked minimum wage of jobs initially and do the job that my mom got at a county in a union it really helped to provide us with the middle-class life that allows me. >> take you for your remarkable leadership, i yield back. >> the gentlewoman's time has expired. >> mr. venture reckoningsksur fr five minutes. >> acting secretary sue your proposed apprenticeship rule sites the advisory committee on apprenticeship recommendations to justify cei policies. which say some apprenticeship sponsors are actively hostile to hiring minorities and can you explain what that means and you

agree to register apprenticeship programs managed by racist and if so, who are they. >> congressman, i believe that we have the opportunity in this country at this time given the unprecedented investments that are being made an american industry and american jobs and what the president says all the time we should be able to make things here and that we invented semiconductors and the reason we can't be the one to manufacture them. >> i understand all of that but the committee justification for the rule specifically says that some apprenticeship sponsors are actively hostile to hiring minorities, does that mean their racist apprenticeship programs in our country? >> i don't know specifically the quote that you're reading from but let me just say. >> the recommendation from the role from your department. >> because opportunities created right now i think there's no reason why we should not be able

to tap in to the full talent and ability and promise of every singleamerican in every community. >> what are the racist apprenticeship programs that were talking about. >> part of what has helped people back fromeo being able to participate fully in american life and take advantage of the opportunities they should be available to everybody is this attermination and what are the racist apprenticeship programs in our country that you're referring to. >> i think what we should be doing is making sure the opportunity is broadly shared in our investment. >> i take it you don't want to answer that question. the recommendation also says that registered apprenticeships have been the domain of white able-bodied men that is a direct quote from the recommendation from the committee in your department, do you agree with that,. >> i don't know what you were reading from. wha' i believe.

>> i'm reading from the advisory committee on apprenticeship from annual report from the secretary of labor dated may 10, 2023, page 14 that is a justification for the rule the new apprenticeship rule that justifies forcing cei programs and mandates on a particular program i'm reading from something that comes from your department and i'm asking if you agree with it and you agree with the statement that are pretty ships have been a domain of white able-bodied man, do you agree withh that? >> it sounds like you're reading from a report that was submitted to me. >> you quoted in used to justify the di program and the role, this is coming from your department, i'm asking if you agree, if you don't agree with it to say you don't agree. >> what i believe congressman is that. >> i take it you don't want to answer the question let me ask you this a different way, is

having fewer white men and apprenticeships the goal of the di provisions of the proposed rule. >> say that again. >> is having fewer white men and apprenticeships the goal of the proposed cei rules and mandates in the rural? is that the goal. >> absolutely not. >> will the department punish states that don't meet the proposed rules racial quotas? >> congressman. >> i have a good reason for asking that the proposed section 29.27 need to would require states to submit a strategic plan for him increasing participation from underserved communities that include the current participation by each race and demographic group in specific targets for increasing participation foror each race, n you explain how would you or wouldn't you punish states that don't meet that? and the racial quotas for

apprenticeships to back congressman we have never gone wrong in this country will be expanded opportunity to more individuals and more communities and make sure everybody seeks to participate. >> indiana doesn't meet that mandate. >> i don't know what putative scheme you are talking about. when we engage with employers and workforce boards and unions and community-based organizations these are all the stakeholders that i regularly engage with when i travel the country to talk about how were going to help meet the workforce needs of employers and the desire to work of americans of all communities, urban and rural of all colors, women individuals with disabilities, veterans, our apprenticeship programs and our investments. >> read your own rule your

justification behind it is very offensive and i believe dangerous and un-american and with that madam chair i yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired, ms. manning you are regulars for five minutes. >> thank you, madamut chair. >> madame neckerchief entered secretary sue i would like to thank you for your many years of extraordinary service to our country. in response to remarks at the top of the hearing i would like to clarify for the record that the prior president use the cabinet cabinet level jobs is a virtual temp agency with 22 cabinet and cabinet level officials who served into the acting capacity for a total of 2736 days including acting secretary of defense, acting secretary of homeland security, acting secretary of the interior, labor, veterans affairs, secretary of state, whitby, epa and acting chief of staff to name a few. our jobam here today is not to

beat up on you for things that are beyond your control but to find out how we can help solve the workforce shortages are employers are facing and how we can protect ourlp constituents o are taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers and help those businesses that are doing the right thing for their workers but have trouble competing with employers who cheat or abuse theirir employee. i would like to start by talking about wage theft. wage theft occurs when employers don't pay the full wages due to their employees, this includes paying workers less than the minimum wage, not paying overtime to workers that work more than 40 hours a week were asking employees to work off the clock before or after their shift. we know this happens. you have an estimate of the total amount of u.s. department of labor has recovered on behalf

of workers due to wage theft. >> i do, thank you so much congresswoman. it fy23, we recovered $156 million in wages for working people, it was noted the overwhelming amount of those wages come from unpaid overtime wages. >> over the last several years the wage in our division total enforcement staff has declined, this is resulted in fewer on-site investigations but my colleagues across the aisle are proposing significant cuts to the activision, can you explain why it's important to have funding unnecessary to put boots on the ground to ensure workers are being paid what they're old? >> yes congresswoman often times the department of labor enforcement is a first and last

line of defense especially for workers who do not have the benefit of a union and who do not have other ways of protecting themselves against wage theft. it is worth noting that the vast majority of employers are trying to do the right thing they have a business model in which they are supportive of their workers and understand why investing in their workers is the best investment they can make those employers also need a strong enforcement to ensure there is a level playing field for them to compete on. if we do not have adequate resources to investigate and even as it is with thoughtful and smart and strategic on how we devote our resources we don't investigate every employer we don't need to we should not investigate everyone in full compliance with the law,t even there the wage theft that we see, the s child labor that has grown, we need to have the resources. >> that we moved to the child

labor issues, we seated explosion in child labor abuse cases in the last decade. again you're addressing this problem with record low numbers of staff in our division and also a resource solicitor of labor often what are the effects of your ability to enforce less staff and how would proposed cuts harm this mission. >> it's really horrific the kind of child labor cases that we are uncovering, we are talking about 13 -year-olds working on the kill floor of a meatpacking plant on the overnight shift with dangerous chemicals, we're talking about a 16-year-old who recently lostt his life working as a sawmill operator, these are jobs that are dangerous and illegal for children to be doing were not talking about a young person learning how to show up on time and do a good job and deal with customers in a job that is appropriate for the

young person. children working on roofs, our ability to be clear that when employers engage in those practices that they cannot consider the chance of being caught to be slim and the consequences if they get caught to be minimal we have to change a calculus and having a strong investigative capability is really importantit to that. >> my time is expired and i yield back. >> thank you ms. manning, mr. good, you are recognized for five minutes. >> taken madame chairwoman, secretary sue from years entered official twitter account 29 days ago you tweeted, if your boss says everyone at work is family might need a union, do you think that's a negative thing to treat people like family at work? >> no i do not. >> you would say treating people like family is a good thing or

positive thing orr negative thing. >> i think treating people with dignity and respect. >> you think treating people at work like families a good thing or bad thing. >> i would like you to say good thing or a bad thing. >> i think all working people should be treated with dignity and respect. >> so you would say treating them like family does not accomplish that. >> your response was if your boss does, let me quote, your boss is everyone at work is liki family might need a union why might that be? >> i think all working people deserve a pay for hard days work. >> if you have a workplace culture that is like family, i don't know if you ever visited small businesses orbit around a small b business who have longte employees and family -like atmosphere and they like it there they want to work there they worked there long timeor in building retirement for themselves and so forth and they

say this is like a family atmosphere, you would say that the negative thing they need to be rescued by union. >> eei would not. >> you don't agree with that tweet? >> my parents had small businessesu t growing up, whati learned from them you should always treat your workers the way that you would want to be treated. >> i would suggest treating them like family meets better than anything else. >> i get to change the subject. do you think, why should not every federal employee come to work in person every day? >> why should not every federal employee showed to work every day. >> i want to say again, any suggestion to the contrary is both nonfactual and highly offensive. >> should every federal employee showed to work every day. >> should every federal employee show up every day. >> incredibly difficult circumstances and without all of the resources that we need which is why we come with the budget

request. >> you proposed a recent policy change, instead of reporting two days a week, we're going to report five days a week to work in 72 days a week that's what you reported, is that your new role for the apartment of labor that's operative limited yet because there literally protesting showing up to work, i hope you've seen the irony in this, on march 199 a group of department of labor employee showed up in person, they showed up in person to a federal building in boston, not to work but to put protesting the proposed plan to show up to work 50% of the time. if they would not show up in person to work i don't know why they didn't protest remotely but they thought they needed to show up in person to protest having to come to work and person, do you see the irony. >> i think it's not right to ridicule the hard-working federal employees. >> i was suggesting for not showing up to work they may not

be hard-working federal employees, wouldn't you agree with that. >> for example many of my staff show up not to an office to wor- >> you and your staff do not show up in person to work, do we agree on that. >> that doesn't mean showing up to work i said show it to an office. >> you suggest they work better when they're not in person? >> i tell you our constituents would say they're not getting adequate and effective service from most m federal agencies especially since 80% don't come to work, they don't show up to work, our constituents have to show up to work, we chose to show up to work and they expect us to do that and you're not even implementing your own rules after short 50% of the time. >> congressman i do not believe that your constituents will be the one who were getting federal workers compensation claims which we have continue theve process and cut down the timeline for doing so. i do not believe that your constituents.

>> this administration -- excuse me -- this administration is trying to change the rules to make it harder to fire federal employees. in anticipation of a newde administration, why would they do that, why would they anticipate with the new administration that my need to protect federal workers from being held accountable number for me workers that do what showed up to work and it might be easier to fire them, why would this administration provide that in a new administration. >> guzman federal employees are: civil servants, the public servants. >> and get a submit they're not serving when they're not coming to work. they're not serving when they're not coming to work and taking full advantage of 3-year-old covid policy, 4-year-old covid policies and not reporting to work every day that is offensive to the people that they're supposed to serve. i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back, i would like to enter into theit record without objection the correction of the statement made by the acting secretary earlier that the labor force participation rate is at an all-time high that is not

correct. according to the bls and the labor force participation rate for march 2024 was 62.7% in the past ten years the labor force participation rate reached the highest level under the trump administration at 63.3% we will enter the appropriate chart into the record and with that i recognize for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman and thank you to our witness for coming here today it is great to have you. a couple of things i would like to talk about. should a worker who has active covid show up to work at the workplace?on >> i don't think anybody who is sick to get other people sick should show up to work. >> just for the record there are many members that didn't come to work during the pandemic that

voted remotely and some of those are in this room, maybe we should go back and tryry to get their payback because they didn't show up for work either according to some people but that is just my view. it's not just the ones who are serving us here in washington, i remember seeing many of them back home sitting in their homes saying they're working it's a little ironic that this is a big issue now. but let's switch to something a little bita more important at least the way i look at it, registered apprenticeship program, i think democratically important, i would suggest one of the most s successful workfoe programs in the history of our country, 92% of those people who complete and register program are employed upon completion, that's pretty good, average wage is $77000, yet i continue to hear about the unregistered

programs, madam secretary, is there anything in the law that prevents a company from privately creating their own register program. >> there is nothing preventing that. >> at t any time any company can say i am created thismp unregistered program and do it? nothing in the law? >> it's only when they want to receive monetary dollars or accreditation from the federal government that they havee to follow those registered rules? remember that they could do anything thatan they want it whn they want us to give them the money and then we sayre you must follow the rules let me give you a good indication why there is something called strong break it is the largest group of employers and employees in this world when a hurricane, i traded a natural disaster hits an area it wipes out the power system that the utilities provide and

something called mutual aid or storm break people come from around the country and what makes that work, historically, used to be one of the most dangerous times for workers being killed because people turn on electric and solar panels. i registered apprenticeship program allows this to happen so those being trained in california under the utilities are the same in new jersey or the same in florida so we all come together understanding there is a certain way to do it, this is one example of the value of a registered apprenticeship program, can you talk to us on where that is today now do they all have registered a particular program. >> you are 100% right that employers to set up programs and to train in to recruit and

retain and call them apprenticeship programs as well, for me, what i see around the country in this moment is because of the jobs that are being created all across america to rebuild roads and bridges anh make sure every family has clean drinking water when they turn on the faucet and make sure every community has access to high-speed reliable internet and make sure were making investments in a clean energy in the future where everyone can breathe clean air, we are in a moment of tremendous job growth and register the prediction programs are helping to deliver the workers that are needed and i talked about mariah and my opening statement it is not just having a worker fill a need it is about a worker getting to do a job and do it in a way that keeps them healthy and safe and gets them to learn a skill that they might've had him to start

their job without debt and continue to grow in that job and get what i hear from working people and people in a partnership programs all the time a little bit of security a little bit of what the president calls breathing room. >> take you i yield back the rest of my time. >> the representativeit from michigan is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chair and thank you for being here today. i want to talk about the independent contractor rule. what is the goal of the rule for the piece of legislation. >> thank you for that question. >> i said thank you for the question the goal of the rule under the fair labor standards act, employees are entitled to a host of protection, minimum-wage overtime and others. the definition of who is an employee is important because

independent contractors don't have those protections and employees do. what we were doing. >> isn't that the choice of the employee? >> i'm still going back to very simply put what is the goal of the independent contractor rule. >> the goal of the role was to restore decades worth of interpretation about who is an independent contractor. >> you think your best suited to make the definition? >> let me say congresswoman i did not make up the test when i see it come from decades i'm still confused of the goal of the rural. >> where's the problem? it seems a trying to fix a problem that does not exist. >> in this classification it is a real problem it refers to the problem. >> what is the problem. >> people have a choice. >> if i not mistaken? >> here's an example.

>> i'm not looking for example i'm looking for an answer. >> it is a problem if you are hired to do a job in which you should have all the protection f of employee status. >> then don't be an independent contractor choose an employer, you could be a 1099 or you can be a w-2, that is your choice. if i don't want to be an independent contractor is there a law that says i can only be an independent contractor? the answer to that i know you give it a 20 minute dissertation is no. >> have you ever been a business owner. >> i will say for the many workers who have come to us and said i was not paid what i should'vei been paid. >> stop your mixing apples and oranges. i go and i'm an independent contractor, i know i'm an independent contractor and then what is the problem, you know

what you are doing you're either an independent contractor or you're not my biggest concern you have not even been able to clearlyen articulate what the gl of the rule is. we talk in circles. you believe in capitalism? yes, wonderful. have you ever owned a business? >> i've said this before and i'm sure i'll get cut off saying it now. >> that would be a yes or no. >> this should be really easy for you let's try this again listen carefully if you need to write a note down that is fine. have you, it is kind of comical when you're supposed to be the acting secretary and you cannot answer a question. i'm with you on the comedy. but unfortunately it's not i tht comical because it's real life, let's try again. have you, not the mother, not for the daughter, not the aunt,

have you ever owned a business? >> congresswoman you asked me. >> have you, let's try this again, you are making a ton of money, you are making legislation for business owners, you were supposed to be in charge as the acting person yet you cannot answer a simple question, amazing to me maybe we should pay you more money and that would help you answer the question i'm going to go back to the question again you have you ever owned a business? not a trick question. >> congresswoman the working people. >> this is the very reason why you cannot get confirmed because you cannot answer a question, right. all even e except and i don't know. have you ever owned a business?

and yes i'm a congresswoman, hae you ever owned a business? >> there are people in this country entitled to basic protections under the federal law. >> so is that yes you have owned a business or no that is not? you are brilliant at answering a question that i did not ask. this is the very reason why you could not get confirmed in the senate because nobody trust you, you cannot answer a simple question. if you were supposed to be in charge i would think it's not too much to ask to be able to answer question. with that, my disappointment continues to grow in your smugness continues too be very unacceptable but you continue acting secretary making policies of which you know nothing about. with that i yield back. >> representative from california is recognized for

five minutes. >> madam secretary, julie, i'm very, very proud of you as a friend and a colleague for many years and as a former business owner who has made lots of payrolls and asthma desire on jeremiah people who own business is not discovering a cure to cancer. in that regard i did want to talk to you specifically about the work that you're doing the help small b businesses. when we enforce labor laws when we make sure the workforce is protected and again, at 70s but in the restaurant business and my success was directly related to my employees and making sure that i respected them and they respected me as an owner and a manager. a lot of what we are doing is making sure the underground economy and people who don't respect employees who don't pay

them, who don't go by the law, we found on california that former congresswoman mimi walters and i didn't underground economy, i thank you might've been there and looked at how hard it was for business owners who complied with the labor lawh amongst others to compete with etthe underground economy which that was about 25% so we aggressively in a bipartisan way iswhen about that so a lot of te work that you are done is actually not just in protecting the employee but protecting high road employers, the cost was of the world as opposed to the walmarts of the world i would say. in that regard a perfect example is something that we worked on together our staff and your staff on the multiemployer pension. by doing what we did no taxpayer money was expended we saved retirement for 800,000 american workers, let's see, 40000 in

michigan, 40000 in ohio 22000 in wisconsin. that was a real accomplishment we really struggled with how we we're going to save the central states and make that whole. at one quote a mixed many stories individual americans and the gentleman from wisconsin i saved implant for my pension to help me pay mypa bills and retirement i had a bad back and knees and i do not see a job that i could accomplish after working for the trucking industry for years, my wife worked in the public school in the small pension which will not cover billsdo how do i get a job in my mid-70s given that my retirement might go away, i worked long hours in terrible weather to earn my pension and that i plan for my retirement and trusted it. i really worry how we will survive with no pension. we said that man's retirement you department and our committee so it's surprising to hear the majority bring this up given the subcommittee and i would

describe it as political malpractice. of their assertions that the people have paid and taxpayers payment. can you respond a little bit more you did have time to respond with a chair person was asking you this is a success story. . . . to 3000 businesses, small businesses, would have gone bankrupt because of their obligations had we not done and you knocked on your department done the work you did -- and your department not done the work they did. sec. su: thank you very much congressmang accomplishment and making sure working people who had saved their entire careers for retirement were able to actually have a secure retirement. as you noted it was also very important for the employer's it would have been stuck without real options.

would have either gone bankrupt or try to get loans without the ability to do so. this was an example of congress coming together. certainly in partnership with president biden who has long been a champion of making sure every working person who saves retirement actually get that retirement into their hands. this is about basic security. and the fact that some of that money came back the process worked. none of the money went to someone you should not have hadw it. there's been new safeguards put in place to make sure that continues to be the place for christ to be find anywhere any place at any time any evidence that dead people get money? workers are evidence of that at all progress you have any idea that came from? quickset talking point you mean? that did not happen.

the money has been returned. there are safeguards in place. we continue to implement a. program that has had incredibly impactful outcomes for working people and their families. quick thank you madam secretary. some people do not like competent women but i certainly appreciate your work. clicks represent from illinois ms. miller's rec answer five minutes for quick thank you. seen secretary su the department of health and human services and ahomeland security have acknowledge the spike in child trafficking under the by t administration. even the left wing "new york times" has been forced to report on the child trafficking crisis at our southern border which has been caused by joe biden. on this chart here you can see the massive spike in child trafficking during the biden administration because joe biden

is allowing cartels to traffic children across our borders. acting secretary su do you believe the open border policy the by administration have cause an increase in the child labor violation? clicks congressman, as somebody who has worked directly with survivors of trafficking. i think human trafficking is a devastating. it is terrible. clicks do you believe the open border policies have caused the spike in child trafficking and exploitation, yes or no? clicks and no. >> no? okay. look at the statistics here. how do you explain this? better per your glasses on there. during your administration you own this because your policies have created this crisis at our

border. i want to do it do you or joe biden take any responsibility for the spike in child exploitation? clicks congressman woman to be clear. traffic is one thing and child laborel is something else. sometimes the two may be could be because of trafficking childrenll are working in these conditions. >> dhs is reporting 85000 children who cross the border are missing. that is the department of labor have any idea where the 85000 actually plus. when i said the board of the border patrol suggested there is wonder to thousand children. americans are outraged over this. do you have any idea where these children are? >> congresswoman, when i talk about child labor the increase in child labor one of the reasons why it we are able to document and increase is because the department of labor is doing our enforcement duty. have come to light because we

are investigating. we are working on the ground to identify it where you have children. m >> you are not dealing with it. you have lost 85000 children. you do not know where these children are. are you horrified you do not over these 85 children are? >> i am horrified by the child labor we have uncovered into many workplaces prolix joe biden and his administration have caused this. so moving on, acting secretary su the job estimates from the bureau of labor statistics are consistently false but financial media outlets have reported the numbers are repeatedly false. as you can see here, either you are putting out fake numbers to get joe biden good headlines and quietly revising the job numbers down. or the bureau of labor statistics is failing to report

accurately the numbers. why should we continue to fund the bureau of labor statistics when it's clearly not fulfilling his duty? clicks the bureau of labor statistics puts out the most reliable data about our workforce. about unemployment. about job growth in industries that there is. >> never to this level have the numbers been so inaccurate. who is responsible for this and has anybody been held accountable? >> congresswoman those headlines do not show they are in accurate. those headlines and demonstrate part of the core of what bls is always done. quick stronger counseling doing revisions. >> they've always done revisions ma'am. bls does revisions. >> never at this level has been so and accurately reported. >> we have seen here today while

you cannot continue to service actingou secretary but you are allowing cartels to traffic children into child labor sweat sweatshops and then losing track of them. you are wildly misreporting jobs numbers and revising them down would suggest either political motives or incompetence. you are violating the constitution by remaining in office when the senate has stated they would not confirm you. you should step down thank you anneal back. >> a representative from connecticut ms. hayes is recognized in five minutes. >> thanknk you, walking acting secretary su. i just like to state for the record that we have asked for multiple hearings on child labor on this commit the democrats have asked in the majority has refused to do that. i would welcome the conversation to have a real honest discussion about what child labor it looks like in this country in ways we can address that is a problem. >> thank you for being here. jotted down a few things before i had my question.

i want to ask you very directly, have you ever been an employee? quickset i ever been an employee? yes i have been. >> yes does a department of labor have any responsibility to workers, employees if you will? >> yes we do. >> the idea only business owners should have any input in this space is completely flawed because a majority of your job and the work that you do affects employees is that correct? >> yes fundamental mission is to serve the working people of this country. >> that is what i thought. it's actually quite appropriate someone who has been an employee would lead the department of labor, yes? >> yes. >> thank you congressman. quickset also want to bring up another interesting thing that i heard. in my district i have seen a lot of business toi' hire individuas

with disabilities cafés that are thriving, new businesses that have opens. it is a very exciting trend in the district. the community is involved and invested. we have seen second career older americans who are getting trained in a new career as a result of workforce development. can you tell me why the department of labor even cares about programs like diversity, equity, and inclusion? >> think you congresswoman. as i have said we have seen record labor participation prime age working people in this country. we are alsowh seeing or record levels across various committees including people disabilities. that is important to us. we have an office of disability employment policy of the department of labor because it is so important to make sure we create opportunity everybody gets to participate. part of what we are seeing

outcomes individual disabilities is because changes over the past couple of decades more and more individuals with disabilities are doing work through competitive innovative employment which also allows them to participate more fully in the workplace. it's good for them. >> this equity and inclusion includes bringing all people into the workplace and making sure they have eight full workplace experience. >> yes. >> that is what i thought. thank you for sharing that. i think people are confused about what that means and how we all benefit from a put morbid back to work. one thing i heard come up in this hearing over and over is the idea people working in person. i think that if we are looking -- make of our programs are geared to trading the next-generation workforce we have to be creative and innovative and get people out in the communities. and to your point you said over and over showing up to work does not mean sitting at a desk all

day but sometimes it's face-to-face in the community talking to people. and the time that i have left out it to my actual questions i am really, really interested in the career training fund the department of labor has included as part of the proposed budget. $8 billion for this program. i have two questions. one dovetails on what i just asked. how would this program incorporate the existing workforce but also keep pace and prepare for a changing workforce? and, what supports will be provided for participants? things like food, transportation, things like that the people need to remove the barriers so they can get this training. >> thank you so much congresswoman. i often say i think of the workforce system as a form of infrastructure two. not physical roads and bridges puts roads and bridges that connectt people to the jobs in 8-inch employers to what they need. the infrastructure has to be

strong as her physical infrastructure. the progressive been talking about today areou part of that. registered apprenticeships for example. sector basedti training. the role of educational institutions. so 8 billion of the grant is meant to help supplement to make sure every individual who is looking for a job and hit needs to be in a training program to do so has some support to do that. it is one piece of the overall puzzle for how we meet this demand that employers have and again in a growing economy we are seeingg more employers looking for workers. everybody has a support they need to do that. forward to working with you and other members of the committee and congress. >> think i'm over my time. appreciate you being here. thus think i will say is we worked really hard on the legislation to get people back to work to make things here. to get language like fair language standards into that

legislation. to make sure it affects our communities i would appreciate a commitment from the department to make sure that is followed all the way through to my constituents feel the benefit of that work. >> represented from texas is recognized for five minutes for. >> thank you, mr. chairman acting secretary my name is nathaniel morgan i've a few questions about regulatory flexibly act and the new independent contractor rule third person first let's talk about that rig was reflexively active. can you tell me if you know what that is? >> i believe that you are talking about a rule, a law that we adhered to in our rulemaking to make sure that we are hearing from all stakeholders. including small businesses in the process of our rulemaking? >> i will give you a b you are exactly right. you have to do it. you have to listen to the small business owners but then you have to quantify in your rulemaking process exactly what the effect would be. did mr. burden, the cost burden

on small businesses if they werh was to go into place. from 1980, it's been around for a long time but most agencies actually don't do it for about 75% of the time they actually don't get to the process they are supposed to go through. in this particular case i'm glad you even know what it is. i want to ask you about how they go through this process and how it went through that process on the independent contractor rule, do you know? >> thank you congressman. i hope my parents were not watching they will not like that be but thank you. i know the rule because we take our obligations in the rulemaking space very, very seriously. people always complain part often complain we take too long to put out rules. >> i'm going to give you another grade. the grade for the part on this one is an f. the estimate on the rulemaking or independent contractor rule said the estimated compliance cost of the administrative

burdens and expenses to small businesses if the independent contractor rule work to go into play was in your opinion department of labor demanding amiri 30 minutes and less than $25 for a small business. you and ia know better than th. the proposed original row was 200 pages we know is going to take longer than 30 minutes to at least read the proposals were going down that process. but, for businesses if they've got people going from independent contractors to now employees we have got a ton more expenses that are going to be on the line including healthcare expenses, tax expenses, worker compensation expenses, retirement, paid leave, all that stuff you tout as a benefit to businesses i is actually a burdn on businesses. they do take that into account when you determined it was going to be merely 30 minutes and less than 25-dollar impact of the independent contractor rule when into play? oxo congressman as i said we take all of our obligations seriously. when it comes to rulemaking at

the department later review osha rules we have another requirement to engage with small businesses. and in all of our rules we comply with the act that you named to create quick so who in the department of labor should get the f is thatts you or the person under you? i'll be glad to get a name of the person who actually said it is amiri 30 minutes and $25 for this independent contractor rule. >> congressman being its national small business because i also want to say one of the things we make sure to do is to provide as much compliance assistance as we can. so once our rules are put in place we are helping especially small businesses who we know they are different burdens who we know do not have the hr shops or that legal shops that might help them do all of that work. >> between the two of his i'm the only one of us it was a small business owner but i can say the federal government is not there to help you. it is there to put a burden regulatory barrier in front of you most of the time to succeed

in this life. >> these small businesses who really need a level playing field on s which to compete so that when they play by the rules others do too. >> and i can tell you most small businesses are people that want to try to get into small biz minority owned businesses and women owned businesses in particular need independent contractor rule what it was not what it is all yield the remainder of my time to mr. kiley and he's going to pick up where left off. >> good morning acting secretary trench a few seconds and maybe just to lay some groundwork. can you put me on how things are going with the implementation of the independent contractor rule? i think it is been seven weeks or so? what has to change? have there been enforcement actions, what's going on there? >> so, we have some tools in place. basically small entity guides following up on congressman moran's question to help small

businesses but employers to understand the rule. >> those are educational but in terms of the department doing enforcement actions or otherwise you know, acting to enforce a new rule, what have you johnson different? >> this a classification has been a concern of the department. making sure that employees who should receive all the labor law protections to which they are entitled actually get the model for talking past each other deliberately or unintentionally let me just say i think there is a difference between somebody who sets up shop to do somethint for they have an ability. somebody sets up independent contractor to do plumbing. you plumbing and our building.

do something different between them. someone whoee is an employee working in a situation sometimes side by side with other people who are called employees. but they are called dependent contractors therefore denied their basic rights under the law. >> we will continue this conversation in the little bits at this point i will recognize the representative from pennsylvania. >> thank you verynt much. secretaryyl su let me just say thank you for coming back to endure yet another hearing before this committee. i apologize for the occasional lack of civility. in my many years of courtroom experience beforetr i came to congress this lack of civility cutting witnesses often melt them finish and answer. not really caring what the truth of the matter was or drawing upon their experience to provide a full picture would never have been tolerated by a judge. i know we are not in a courtroom. sometimes i often wish we were

so we had somebody independent who could call out that kind of thing. i have never owned a business. but as a lawyer for 35 and some years represented many businesses both small and large. during those years i often had occasion to counsel one of my clients whether they could classify an employee or certain employees as independent contractors. too anxious to classify them as independent contractors. because wage b laws, workplace protections, retirement benefits and other benefits would not go to such employees. many times had to go through with employers to expect a rule

for a very, very long time for the trump administration tried to get rid of it. explain it to the e lawyer white these people work for them could or could not become classified as independent contractors. it was a very detailed process. i will say sometimes i did not give my clients, the business owners, the answer they wanted but it was the truthful legal answer. andd so i think it is really important that people understand more about the independent contractor rule. has come for my opponents on the other side of the aisle about this rule. the biden rule was put back into place to reinstate. >> congresswoman.

many decadesen mainly. our rule takes the criteria makes than the rule under the fair labor standard act. that's what the rule is if you look at the case law. the last administration rule was out of step with that case law. we have now restored it. >> i do not make up the factors my team did notto make up the factors. we put in place a rule that was the standingat rule. >> let me interrupt briefly. was not affected rule fashioned a b5 but rather was a reinstatement of what existed for decades? >> we were explicit in doing it. we did not have the authority to adopt abc tests which exist in n

a number of states. >> what have you seen that are problematic in your position in terms of violations. how does that hurt workers? >> we had a case recently involved residential home care workers. these are caregivers. so many workers in that industry end up working low wages without basic protection. we see this in restaurants. someone is washing dishes in is called an independent contractor. we have seen and hotels the hotel operator will hire some house keepers to do the work as

employees. often that enables the employer to avoid certain payroll taxes. >> in turn the payroll taxes. in that kind of thing. this difference of opinion on this in this committee. department of labor is not there to protect the rights under employers in my right about that? worksheet correct. >> workers? healthcare level playing field support a strong economy that also benefits employers. >> thank you very much i yield back. >> representative from california's recognizer fived minutes. >> thank you very much. want to submit to the record in article published on april 6

titled julie is prepared to forgive her self for mistakes. potential for forgiveness of an estimated $30 million. $30 billion in fraudulent pandemic unemployment benefit payments issued by california biseconomic development. after looking at guidance from decemberlo regarding state law t appears it is in effect allowing states to sweep fraud under the rug. andep not pursue the billions lt to them. this is what article say. acting secretary su thank you for coming out today. i've been wanting to ask this to

you directly this is a very important hearing. i want to request before ask questions to provide this committee with a copy of february 2024 letter referenced in any relevant between california and dol. >> those of the exhibits are snow that objection for. >> your intent to forgive nearly $30 billion in fraudulent paymentsts it paid out to scamms unknown international organized crime rings that occurred under you in california? >> thank you congresswoman forgive me a chance to address that.s it's absolutely false the guidance the department of labor fraud is never okay. we do not condone it. we should not overlook it.

both are oig and others have been trying to combat the fraud that was overwhelmingly paid in a program set up by congress to address the pandemic to allow for backdating and self certification in its design. the fraud is not acceptable. a week, the department of labor did not waive any efforts to combat the fraud or to recover fraudulent payments. in fact just recently my inspector general chased some funds all the way to another country. fraudulent friends read to purchase property research about combating fraud with the guidance did there is the ability to waive non- fraudulent

overpayments that might have been made to individuals. working people who struggle through the pandemic like anybody else got overpayments that were not their own fault. and so the waiver. >> on me ask you out of $30 billion from california how much is just over payment not fraud by those criminals? how much are we talking about? >> it's a good question. do not know the answer to that. after i left california there's still workk being done in all states are still trying to assess exactly what happened during that period off time. but again, overwhelmingly typical unemployment insurance. >> adjuster claim i time but thank you very much forha you assuring us you are not doing it because forgiving fraudulent payments would appear to be a major conflict of interest.

>> congressman kai also clarified that guidance was not just for california the guidance. >> i get that. out of 130000000.25% fraudulent payments was made in california. i'm ask youia for that but on indicated the letter prefer the event can be recognized in the financial statements and the forgiveness of debt. that's what loaded on the reports on the california finance reports. i really want to see why they created this kind of a language other financial statement. you already knew because you are the one statedon edd on able to

manage. you knew homework and carries act money all of these and you already stated california did not have enough measures in place us under your watch that happens. if you are actually forgiving and thank you for assuring us you're not going to do it but you did it on 85 is wiping out all the independent contractors. except the few industries you did not could not implement in the nation wide in the united states. but you did its, anyway on march 11 your department issued new rules precook a judge will miss time is expired.

>> i really want to make sure you are not forgetting the $30 billion the money went to all these criminal rings. >> thank you my timeon is up. >> a represent from indiana is recognizer five minutes. >> thank you acting secretary su. thank you for being here today to discuss the president's budget request for the upcoming fiscal year. after months of deliberation congress came to a consensus and pass the fiscal year 2024 budget. which i was proud to support on behalf of the workers and families of northwest indiana. today the committees come together to discuss continued investment in these programs for the upcoming fiscal year. i would like to highlight the rule briefly finalized by the department to ensure fiduciary advice is providing in good faith across industries including stakeholders representing retirees, public safety government employees and trades and market their

fiduciary rules been widely supported recently in estimation of the council of economic advisers to determine a conflicd advice couldic cost savers at te 5 billion a year. that is why i was proud to co- lead a letter and support of the retirement security rule for people my district and across the nation trying to invest how to invest the retirement nest egg is the biggest financial decision will ever have to make her famous by the budgets on resin cost of living, passing up vacations and going out for dinner so they can response would put money away for retirement. devalued investment in that retirement is not feasible but can you explain howle congressional action to the congressional review act would negatively impact workers andng their families? >> think you congressman. so, as you already said the retirement security rule is meant to protect the retirement savings and hard-working americans. to make sure when you put away

money throughout all of your working years when you seek to invest that money the advice that you get is based on your best interests as the investor rather than on any financial benefit or conflict of interest that might come to the advisor. most people think that's what they're gettingat anyway. you know they did their studies for the conflicted advice it can be very costly toly working peoe in fact the study that you mentioned was about one retirement product this is just an area make sure working people retirement savings are being invested.ed giving them peace of mind

traditionally has a present budget request for the employee benefits security secure the department has the resources those of small savers from poor conflicted investment advice? >> thank you so much. the rule is important because it sets a standard. the budget request for employee benefits, security administration so we can enforce the law. i'll get to quick examples of what it does. we had a situation where a retiree had worked for 30 years. at the end of his work life you did not get any of his retirementef benefits. part of what is known as the lost a participant in a program. when we got involved we were able to identify he was entitled to that money he and his family got a significant lump sum payment going forward. one is making sure those were

safe for retirement are not lost in the system and get their benefits. once they do that for one individual it ended up something the employer and the plan sponsor did for others to read the second example i want to share also helps to make sure people get the health benefit to which they are entitled we had a case recently an individual needed a heart transplant his insurer, his employer sponsored insurer it was not a necessary surgery. we got involved. we found it was covered in that man is alive today because of having talked about her health and the mental health space it is so important to enforce laws in order to make sure they feel meaningful and real for working people in this country. >> i want to thank you for standing up for working men and women. and for sending guidelines to make sure it's fair a level playing field. thank you very much your work.

with that i yield back. >> i like to play quick video. >> and started just a question. >> him i recognize myself or play video. do you support reclassifying independent contractors as employees against their will? >> forth those workers at work n the giga economy absolutely. >> that's of the chosen witness of the minority had a recent hearing. do you agree with her? do you support classifying independent contractors and employees. >> i'm sorry congressman can you do that again? >> sure will play again.

do you are you classifying independent contractors as employees against their will question.t >> for those workers that work in the giga economy absolutely. i agree, disagree? >> wellse congressman, let me sy i do not agree the has the authority to force any kind of classification against people's will. i will say the laws of this country protect working people when they should be called employees and are misclassified as independent contractors precook soon you say you do not have the authority to do that against people's will, what you mean? there's a new rule. if you're going to go around enforcing its going to change their status, right? >> i'm sorry. i washed up very quickly it sounded like your question was do you support forcibly making people who are independent contractors in the giga economy

intoco employees question. >> yesterday support that? >> what i am sayingg is nothing we are doing at the department departmentof labor, including pt a rule that restores the employee versus independent contractor rule two decades of case law again not criteria i made out. not a test that i thought should be put in place that i wrote. it's based on decades of case law interpreting provokes nothing about that would force someone into employee status against their will, correct? if so you're saying? >> is awi different question frm the first question you asked it. >> not really. if someone says i want to be an independent contractor that's good enough for you? you're not going to try to challengee that? >> well, the losses is not just what i think. the law said what you call someone even inlet said the sign an agreement. let's say that is what you would use. saying the independent

contractor signed an agreement say the 1099. that should be enough. case law is clear that is not sufficient to find some. >> okay you just created a new rule you're heavily involved in creating that received a lot of notice and comment. you finalize that, you signed off on at the question is, whether under that rule someone will be forcibly reclassified against their will. let's take a concrete example of a group called women and motion but the group of truck driver so i know you've met with them but i encourage you to their great group. they have told some stories. for example we have is that bambi behind me? yes it is but she said she likes to be an independent contractor just chosen to do so because i wanted to run my own business but a fellow time for me too grow. when asked how a ban on independent contracting she said it would be devastating. family defense on the income my flexibility being independent contractor provides a ban on restriction went on to both of those which you could assure bambi who is an owner/operator,

a truck driver that this new rule will not change your status? >> well congressman the outcome of applying thehe test the facts of a particular circumstance which is it infant owner operator, a truck driver. unit how many people there are in the country independent contractors hard bust truck drivers? >> how would you have a the ark was over and said you know the project is about three and 50000 birds or take your, bambi can you assure her you're not when come after her and tell her she's got to run or different business now? can you assure her of that? >> congressman, the purpose of having agr rule and a test is so that we can't make sure working people who should be entitled to the protections of the fair labor standards act to get them. that is not inconsistent with the ability of bona fide independent contractors to operate precook somera asking a simple question about this

particular person. you can answer these questions because of your labor secretary you did not enforce a b5 because whole categories of people who were exempted and were defined in the statute is not being subject to i'm asking right now are independent owner operator truck drivers going to be treated differently under the rule that you dress to publish than they were to the pre-existing rule? yes or no pay. >> first, let me say congressman what you just said yourself is several categories were exempted. therefore not working against them is what the law says they were not covered. the point you are making and saying is simple and telling you it's not simple. you have to apply the facts of a case to the law. >> you are missing the point a point which the statute you can say this whole category, this whole profession is exempt from the law but that was not a fact dependent termination. this particular profession truck drivers come into pet owners and ruoperators, hundreds of thousas of them that are vital to our

supply chain, can you give us an answer right now on how they will be treated under this new rule? >> our new rule does not have exemptions for entire industries that solve the case law says. we were following both the plain language of the fair labor standards act and the cases that it has interpreted. that's what's within my authority through that's of the final rule does. >> thank you so much mr. chair. thank you so much secretary su secretary sufor taking the timeh the us here today i've read your remarks i read your testimony by every measure the economy under yours and present biden's leadership is doing quite well despite what others would have us believe. it is m doing quite well. we continue to see a strong job market with record low unemployment. but there's more than this that can be done to ensure every

american has access to the opportunities that will lead them to highly skilled and quality careers. and provide a good life for themselves and for their families. almoste all of the good paying jobs in our economy actually require some postsecondary credential or education. that could be short-term to her for degree. however most americans either have some college education or less. like a high school diploma or maybe even an equivalent. despite most americans not having a college degree, the federal government still only spends a fraction on a workforce development programs compared to what it has spent on traditional higher education programs as you can actually see behind me. we spent five, 10, even 20 times

more in any given year on our university system on employment and training services you do not have to have a college degree to be successful something only path to good paying job doesn't help the only message we are setting to vastly different funding levels. shouldn't we be leaving our students where they are and provide support for the necessarytr training programs? it is a disservice to our students and our employers as shown by the huge amount of college debt workforce shortages we see across the country. this failure to invest in our workforce is not leaving leaving families and businesses behind it iswo risking our competitive advantage on the world stage

globally.ad we spend drastically less on these efforts and our allies and inother comparable countries around the world. the u.s. is spends just four hundredths of a% of our gdp on workforce training and employment programs. america should lead but that is unfortunatelyib not possible whn we have habitually underfund our workforce program. secretary sue, can you talk about how important it is for us to fully fund and expand upon the work you have done on apprenticeships and other nontraditional workforce development e programs? >> thank you very much congresswoman. we have models for what works to connect people to good jobs and

employers to people for a travel country and i see you then. you're hopefully sing them in your districts too. we need to scale those models because employers are looking for working people and working people are looking for good jobs. registered apprenticeships is one of those. i've talked about our workforce system being infrastructuree roads and bridges connect people and employers. that's the case then they are like superhighways. they are very effective way of bringing people who do not have a four year degree and don't want to get a four-year degree into the workforce into a good paying job with security and a lifelong opportunity to be able to contribute, to build, to make things. our budget request is about making sure we take things we know it can be done to fulfill employer needs and make

opportunity broadly available and double downe on those investments. those investments are good for everybody. they are good for people of all races from every community. the desire for people to be in a good job that will change their lives i know you seen your district and i see it everywhere i go pay. >> thank you for that as you and i discussed the new nature of work is what we have now in particular coming through covid. workers now are caregivers. they are themselves looking for education. they are working. we have to make sure we are able to address all of the needs they have specifically and being able to find the educational resources they need but more importantly that they deserve and thank you for your testimony. >> thank you for. >> representative from florida's rec and ice for five minutes for. >> thank you very much mr. chairman good afternoon to you, for committing, acting

secretary su were glad to have you here. how long have you been the acting secretary? >> i'm going to get this exactly ratably was nominated in march of last year. >> march of last year it would be 13 months is that accurate? >> about 13 months congratulations i think you've set a record. my team says you are the longest-serving acting secretary that werv have had in quite some time. how long do you plan to state without being confirmed? have been nominated twice. ex- congressman i came to the admits ration as a deputy secretary of the rest confirmed for that job in 2021. when my predecessor left they became the acting secretary to that regular statutes for. >> how long how is it okay for someone to serve in the capacity article two section two of the constitution our founding fathers said there should be advise and consent that should

be confirmed. my question is how long you plan to stay if you are not confirmed? >> is very honored to meet nominated production with you on that it is a big deal it's a big deal where i am. but how long are you planning to stay question affects our statutes i believe the starting mentioned by the ranking member pick what you do not know? you havee an idea? serving in the position. the reason we have an opinion about that is it because. >> you would say people can stay as long secretaries can stay as long as they want as long as they have a ruling vacant state without being confirmed?th is that what i'm hearing? >> and noaa. i said i was confirmed as a deputy secretary. >> i was asking your acting secretary you are no longer the deputy you are the person in charge. our constitution says you could be confirmed if you are not confirmed how long are you staying?

>> my predecessor left i became the acting secretary. >> would you say it's okay by saying you're not leaving? future secretaries are the next administration we don't have to worry about the constitution. we can stay as long as you want are you saying that acting secretary su? >> absolute that's not what i'm saying. this w question has been asked d answered thank you forming the body that asked her. >> and saying you haven't answered it. here's the next question. i don't know. you see the precedent it is the su loophole if you stay forever without getting confirmed request is not a loophole at all the. >> i am just asking how long are you staying? by that happy small business week this is a week you have acknowledged on the small business committee for having a showcase in the visitor center today at 3:00 p.m. go talk to those business owners i encourageyou to do what they'reo tell youwi they are getting strangled with new rules, new regulations that make it very hardrd i have owned sport small

businesses it is tough you're often the first one to come, the last one to leave and the last one to get paid it is a struggle all the way. sometimes that small business is an independent contractor. the last survey i saw 86% of independent contractors love what they are doing. love the giga economy love what they're doing what they're doing with their jointly going to change. i note the chair asked you this but are you willing to continue to reclassify with over 86% of contractors and i want to change i love my job that's going to threaten their livelihood are you still willing to go forward even though this will be against their will to reclassify them as an independent contractor? congressman, in addition to the 15.3 million jobs have been created in this country since president biden came into office, we are seeing a small business boom at the same time. i don't let the exact numbers over 15 million. >> they do not want to lose their jobs.

california did something very similar a beat five in california. they had to exempt over 100 professions it was going to be diggs asked her but are we prepared this could be a disaster and people lose their jobs question finally, let me ask you this. you believe, as do i, people should have choice in their quality healthcare do you agree with that? >> i believe. >> i would agree they should have quality healthcare. but let me tell you what you and dol did the previous administration published a rule to allow the gig economy workers independent contractors their rule allowed independent contractors to join the employer health plan. over 4000 people are now getting their healthcare through this rule. yet, what you did, your agency did a rule that finalized this week reversing that and essentially kicking off on a

thousand people that get their healthcare from their employer that rule change that. we just kicked 40000 people out of. i am bummed out about that my time has expired i yield back mr. chairman thank you so much for. >> represented from florida at ms. wilson is reckoned extra five minutes. >> thank you. i like to think acting secretary su for being here today at welc. welcome to you. it's always been my mantra and our economy added three new 3000 jobs in march. the unemployment rate ticked down to 3.8%. the jobless rate has been below 4% or 26 months in a row. the longest stretch in more than

50 years. am i correct that these numbers are right and they are at night and day compared to what occurred during the trump administration. can you talk about the economy that the biden administration inherited? and the policies that ndcongressional democrats and president biden implemented to turn things around? i think people are forgetting where we were and how far we have come. >> thank you congresswoman. yes, when president biden first came into office to do what you said to think about where we were, unemployment rate was at an all-time high. the pandemic was raging. people did not know if there when you get toilet paper or baby t formula when they needed it. and today we have seen

15.3 million jobs created. we have seen unemployment rate less than 4% for the longest stretch the 1970s. participation rate is strong or real wages especially for low and middle income americans are up. and it has outpaced inflation which translate into more money into working people's pockets. we are in the midst of delivering historic investments in our infrastructure. in manufacturing, clean energy and bringing industries back to the unitednd states so it workig people can have good jobs good union jobs right here in the united states. it's important to also note none of this was promised. in fact most people even as it was happening kept saying it was impossible or it was too hot. it's going to crash or the recession was coming. it is important to acknowledge will be still have work to do d

and we need to continue to do it. we know working people leads a part that's partly reflected in our budget. the recovery that we have seen would not of been possible without strong leadership, good economic policies, and vesting and working people. expand opportunity to all americans. >> thank you, thank you so much. we need that. we need to know. secretary su 86% of public school districts reported their hiring this teachers wages have increased in other sectors. teacher pay is not kept pace the average teacher salary when adjusted for inflation has actually decreased over the last decade. this has led to more educators leaving the profession.

that negatively affect student learning next week is teacher appreciation week. i introduced the american teacher act one start 18th congress. the intent is to address teacher shortage by directing department of education to awarded teacher salary grants my bill establishes grants to increase the minimum salary in public elementary secondary school teachers. it also authorizes national campaign the value of the teaching profession. in fact the last two state of state ofthe unit addresses prest biden t declared from the podium increasing teacheriu pay as a national priority and ion quotei want to give public school teachers a raise is what he

said. the next year he said let's give public school teachers a raise. do you have any thoughts on guidance? on teacher pay raises from the department of labor? >> thank you very much for congresswoman. as you noted the president has been very supportive of making sure teachers do wellin our country but hehe said many times in billionaire should not pay a lower l tax rate than teachers. one of the ways we have seen teacher pay go up over the last year is the unit is to negotiate for higher wages not just among teachers but other industries too. we are also working to make sure we help to fill the need for teachers through programs like the workforce ones we are talking about. and to your point sometimes the challenge of getting workers enjoy certain field is because

of job quality needs to be improved people need to know and they do the work they make a decent living and feel secure and support their families and have security retirement. >> your time is expired or picks a gentleman from missouri is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. acting secretary su as it has been mentioned you are now breaking records for the longest-serving acting secretary in the history of the united stateses really. as is mentioned in article two section two clause shoot to says youu are to serve but only with the consent of the senate. how many time has the senate rejected your confirmation? >> congressman the senate confirming in 2021 to be the bdeputy secretary. >> but not the secretary. how many times have they rejected you to be secretary?

>> the reason i'm sitting here is the acting labor secretary is because of that confirmation. >> they did not confirm how many times? since my predecessor i became the acting secretary by virtue have been confirmed as a deputy secretary for. >> he have not been confirmed it's been over 13 months. i what point do you think you are in violation of the constitution? >> sir, you'll asked that question of the gao and you got your answer i'm not in violation of any law sitting here. but i do want to say i do respect the role of the senate. cooks what is the point? i think you continuing to serve if anything is a disrespect for the constitution and a disrespect for the senate. clearly the senate gives deference to other secretaries or the biden administration they have approved. they have not given that to you.

at what point will you acknowledge you have not been accepted by the senate and will stepp down? sec. su: i was confe senate as a deputy -- rep. burlison: despite the fact that in my opinion you are operating as an illegitimate secretary, your agency, even though you have zero jurisdiction over union election procedures, you have created a prounion propaganda website called workers center dot dove that basically regurgitates information from many of the acting -- the think tanks for labor unions to encourage people to organize. what authority, what jurisdiction do you have to create such a website? sec. su: >> so congressman, one thing that has come up here today is the importance of listening to workers, understanding what they want, what theyy need and trying to be responsive to that.

one thing that we found before we create that website was some 60 million americans would join a union if they could, if they knew how to do it and felt they could do it without fear and if they could do it without retaliation. >> my question was under what jurisdiction? >> it is one of many ways that we do education outreach. this website was responsive to what we were hearing that workers wanted -- it was something that they want today know. >> how much money did you spendo on thew. website? >> is it taxpayer money that most people would objectively call propaganda? how much did you spend? >> worker organizer, it's public, public knowledge about the steps to take if they want toto join a union. even what does a union do, what is it? >> i have little time.

i will move onto the fiduciary rule. you publicly justified the short notice and new fiduciary rule by stating that the department of labor has already heard comments. my question is, is the 2004 fiduciary rule or not? >> it is a new rule that was just finalized last week. >> and if -- >> we are now in -- we are in may 1, okay, how -- how long did you give more comments before you issued this new rule? >> so that's a new question, thank you, congressman. we had a 60 day period. quite standard not just for the department of labor but also for other agencies and during the comment period we held two

public hearings. >> did you get input from the insurance commissioners? >> i have to say sitting here i don't know for sure but i can get the answer to you. >> you recognize that each commissioner serves a vital role in the process? >> well, the comment period is hepublic meaning we invite and frankly benefit the more widely known -- >> the answer is known because their association issued statement that there was virtual no coordination with regulators in implementing the rule. my time has r expired, thank yo. >> i'm sorry, i don't know. >> the representative from minnesota good to see you again, secretary su, i wanted to talk about the child labor violations that are soaring that we are

seeing throughout the country, we are also seeing some states rolling back labor protections for minors from florida to iowa, republican lawmakers have been weakening child labor laws. could you provide update on the interagency task force on child labor and how the department of labor is following up on potential hot spot. one of the reasons so much attention is being paid today is that we have uncovered horrific cases and there's just no mistaking that these are both really young children, some of them working the night shift, hazardous situations, young as 13-year-old working on the kill

floor using toxic chemicals and losing limbs and their lives. so last year, the last fiscal year, the department of labor assessed the most penalties that wehe have ever assessed under child labor laws. we also lead in interagency task force that you mentioned in order to make sure that all of government is working together on the various pieces that it will take to engage with other parties that might be helpful to us as we try to identify these cases and to hold employers accountable who engage in this practice in such blatant disregard for the law. that task force continues to work together to identify gap and to try to make sure that we are putting a stop to this practice? >> thank you that.ng the bureau of international

labor plays an essential role in leveling the playing field for all workers. howd should we be thinking of e workers in mexico, for example, as it f relates to the workers n the united states and what would it mean if republicans were successful in slashing the budget for ilap? >> thank you very much. >> if you can be as precise as possible. i have one more question. >> the well willing of workers in this country is tied to the well-being of work others in other countries. when we have the ability for to create a race to the bottom in the all workers are vulnerable to exploitation, abuse, it's not good for any worker. through ourur eye lab we both produce reports and advocate to make sure that, for example,

prohibitions against goods made through forced labor from coming into this country are enforced. we work closely with our partners at the department of homeland security onn that. in terms of texas, there's trust umca, u.s.-mexico-canada agreement and we in ilap play a role to make sure that provisions are enforced and working people in mexico also have a full and fair right to join a union of their choice and -- and we believe that that will improve not just working conditions for workers in mexico but also the competitive disadvantage that working people in the u.s. have to face when wo don't ensure that workers across the globe are protected? >> yeah, thank you, i commend you forr: that work. actually inns my district the tn

cities driver's pension plan was one that benefited from it. 1,075 pensions were saved. what would happen to my constituents, to businesses and employees across the nation if we did not address -- >> this is about working people who have saved and are relying on having the retirement savings so that they can, you know, stop working at the end of a career and know that they can continue to live with security. the multiemployer pension fund saving that -- that this congress passed and the president signed into law helps to make sure those individuals in those funds get the retirement save that is they are entitled to and as you've seen in your district and i've heard

going across the country that has made a world of difference to a lot of working people and at the same time those employers also benefited because it allowed them to continue to operate and prevented them from going into bankruptcy and -- and so it was really a win-win and i appreciate the work to make that happen, part to be implementing that. >> the representative of pennsylvania is recognized. >> the biden administration rolled out a final rule updating act regulations which, of course, requires contractors that perform work on federal or federally funded construction projects to pay a government prevailing wage to on-site construction workers. i myself work in the construction industry for 25 years, very proud to have been

part of an industry that creates great family sustaining well-paid jobs, a lot of opportunities there. i do know, though, artificially setting the wages will have an impact on the cost of federal projects and i wondered if you're aware of that. >> well, one thing i want to say about that, congressman, is that when -- when workers are protected, when they're paid decent wages, part of -- i know you know this. >> so you think without federal government setting wages, they would not be paid decent wages? >> well, the goal of the davis basin related acts is to ensure that federally funded construction projects don't depress local wages in the area where the work is being done. the other point i wanted to make is that i understand there are many study that is demonstrate

this that when working people are -- are paid prevailing wages and treated well that it actually ends up having cost savings on a project because that's continuity -- >> not borne out of studies. nonpartisan beacon hill institute estimates davis basin methodology increases federal project cost by 7% and i've seen that firsthand with pennsylvania prevailing wages, that's see ago discussional cost. do you think that's fair to taxpayers to at a time when construction costs are -- are increasing dramatically due to inflation, do you think it's fair at this time to add an additional cost to taxpayers? >> well, again, i think the reason why the laws are in place is to make sure that federally-funded construction projects don't depress wages inn the area and that is -- that's policy but i a also think it's fair to make sure that doesn't happen. >> so do you think the federal

government should set wages in other areas as well? >> well, my role as the acting labor secretary is to enforce provisions that congresss pass, so we have a federal minimum wage. we have -- >> we oppose it, we sent a letter, i sent a letter with chairwoman fox, opposing this change specifically because it will increase federal costs, this is not congress that has done this, it is coming directly from the biden administration? >> well, so the rule was the department of labor rule but the basic principle that federally-funded construction projects should be set at a prevailing wage so it does not have a negative effect on the wages in that area is part of the davis-bacon and related act. >> why should the government set construction wages but not nurses wages, for instance?

>> right, so i think that is a question for congress. i mean, if you set nursing wages at something i would be enforcing voice wages as well. i think -- >> do you think the federal government should set wages in other sectors other than construction? >> i think a basic wage floor beneath which nobody should be forced to live and work is incredibly important. >> but that's not what davis bacon is. this is not a minimum wage. this is literally having the federal government abandon free market principles and set wages at some level. that's what -- that's what this is. this isn't minimum wage. i do want a very quick question on apprenticeships as well. i know others have been talking about this, the you've said you want to cooperate with states and just put in the record that many states not in a bipartisan matter have talked about these

new regulations, for instance, michigan, this is a quote said that new regulations and requirements will be an added formidable burden to employees, connecticut said that the rule would have a chilling effect, your home state of california said the rule us the not clearly demonstrate evidence and value of adding another component to the structure that can accomplish the same intents without constricting federal rules. i just want to express my concerns but also the concerns of many states where we will see less individuals involved in apprenticeship programs. i think you and i agree that apprenticeship are very breath career paths, to a great job, to a great career but these regulations will not help to allow more people to enter, it'll have theer opposite effect and i'm out of time, thank you, mr. chairman. the representativs

recognized. >> thank you, acting secretary su i want to begin with an apology for the disrespectful behavior from some of my colleagues. rather than allowing you to provide substantive answers to their questions, you have been interrupted numerous times. i also want to clarify. the senate has never rejected your nomination. in fact, your nomination was passed and your nomination as secretary was passed out of the appropriate committee. the fact that you have stood with workers and workers families should be something that we all celebrate because that is indeed in your job description. we appreciate it. i know that workers and the worker families and my district and state appreciate it. i also want to thank you for doing a great summary in response to some of the other

questions about how far our economy has grown, how many jobs we have added in the last four years especially when you think or when you answer the questions -- are we better off today then we were four years ago? four years ago were dark under former president trump. people were worried about losing their apartments. as you pointed out, you could not buy toilet paper. it was scary. it was dark. and because of the investments done, we have come out of it. but there is a lot more work to do especially in rural areas that i represent. we know that education skills, apprenticeships make a big difference in securing better paying jobs. and you need the better paying jobs if you are going to fight the inflation that, let's be honest about it, has been fueled by greedy corporations whose record profits are on the back

of consumers. let's be honest about where inflation comes from. there is a great federal reserve article about that. these certification courses are really important and apprenticeships are another one. they don't always apply in rural areas. and my district -- in my district a commercial driver would have to drive three hours to get to some of these federally funded training programs. i want to see if you can talk about expanding the department of labor workforce opportunities for rural communities initiative so we can start granting those funds in western rural committees on a bipartisan basis. the rest is checkerboard, blue and red, you need to get the funding out there. how do you see that would make a difference if we moved it to the west? sec. su: thank you,

congresswoman. the workforce opportunity for rural communities is something that we wanted to do in order to make sure that we are really achieving equity. that every community is seeing benefits from the investments being made. i think we are on the fifth round of those investments. and being able to expand them will only allow us to further reach individuals, families and communities that have been left out for far too long. it is an important time to do it as well because part of president biden's vision is that we invest in every single community. for example, when we make sure there is reliable broad's -- reliable high-speed broadband in every community. the people that live in that community that work on those jobs is really significant. if i could also just mention, you and congressman wilson have

grants which is another way that we supplement the workforce program to ensure that we reach all those communities. rep. fernandez: i have an appropriation letter and hopefully we will see these programs in my district. i want to turn to something else that new mexico and other places like arkansas and missouri -- the arts and recreation. the creative sector makes a difference, about a trillion dollars to the economy. i want to have the department of labor work with us to explore how federal workforce about a program such as apprenticeships can better serve nontraditional sectors like the arts. also like outdoor recreation. we just passed the explorer act on the floor of the house led by chairman restaurant, my republican colleague from arkansas. he talked about what they are doing in terms of the economic growth in these rural areas who

would love to work with you on that and look forward to talking to you about that. i have run out of time. thank you so much. >> the senator from kansas. >> thank you, chairman and thank you acting secretary su for being here. i know you have been here for a long time so i will try to move quickly through my comments. last week the department of labor -- the so-called -- the fiduciary rule. i have concerns about the substance and impact of the rule but the administration's rollout of the role is also disappointing. my other colleagues have talked about how it was rolled out and there was only 40 -- 45 business days over a holiday period so it really was not the appropriate approach of how you get comments back.

but instead of talking about that, i want to talk about how the white house in the rollout of that used the term eliminating junk fees as part of the reason for doing this. and that is the first time ever that annuities have ever been accused of having junk fees. my concern is that this is a propaganda -- that there is a propaganda aspect to this. can you explain how that term works and if not for this rationale of the white house trying to hype up a phrase, can you explain why there is no signal -- single reference to junk fees? sec. su: thank you, congressman. our public comment period was 60 days and we held two public hearings. we received 400 individual comments, over and just under 20,000 petition submissions. the public comment period is incredibly valuable and important and we take into

account the comments we got and try to put out a rule that is as -- that achieves the goals of whatever that rule is. rep. estes: the junk fees is really what i want to focus on and not the number of comments. sec. su: our rule seeks to make sure that any retiree, and investor, that the advice they get from a financial advisor is in their best interest and not informed by the interest of the financial advisor. and one way the conflict of interest could come into play is that there could be a fee that the retiree had to pay -- rep. estes: i understand and we would expect people to get paid a fee for a service. it is an insulting terminology used for folks trying to help people save for their retirement. i take offense at the term "junk fees" being used in this manner.

from a standpoint of the cost talking about fees, prior to the release of the fiduciary rule, the inflation numbers came out hotter again for the third month in a row. since president biden has been in office cost inflation has gone up over 19 months. 19% and the joint economics committee has determined in my home state of kansas people pay $1000 more a month for this in food, same rent as they did in january 2020 one. and wages are down 3.9%. in terms of net wages since the president has come and office. at a time when people are struggling to meet their daily needs with inflation, i'm concerned about the higher costs being applied to people trying to save -- there was a deloitte study done prior to the fiduciary rule that more than 10

million low and middle income individuals lost access to investment assistance during the short time that the 2016 fiduciary rule was effective. i saw middle-class savers having to pay more in fees because of that fiduciary rule. fortune a the fifth circuit rescued the american people from that and with this new role, it seems the administration is wanting millions of more people of low to middle income to lose access to investment assistance and have to spend more money to keep the access. so how many individuals does the department expect to lose access to investment because of the new fiduciary role? sec. su: to be clear, i was not referring to the fees that advisors charge. i'm referring to the fee charged to an investor that would not be charged but for that conflict of interest. we certainly, our goal is to expand retirement security.

not to shrink it. rep. estes: my concern on this question was that people are losing access because of cost and because of the extra burden placed on the investment advisors. sec. su: well, our hope is that by eliminating conflicts of interest, that retirement savers actually do better. their investments are being put into vehicles that optimize their savings. and as was noted earlier, there are studies that show -- rep. estes: i am glad that is a shared hope and i'm sorry to cut you off. i'm out of time but the prior studies show people that have lost access and that is my concern. we are not helping people save for their retirement. i yelled back. >> mr. scott is recognized. >> a lot of the republicans on the committee may not like the law but the fact is the

constitution and present statutes have you legally serving as acting secretary of labor. they may not like it but you are there and it is certainly legal. in terms of child labor, we have another example of -- in congress, complaining about something as if it is a solution. we are seeing this in immigration. there are a lot of complaints about what is going on in immigration. when you have a bill that comes up to do something about it, they killed the bill, say out loud that if we had passed the law it would not -- it would mean we could not campaign on it, and then go back to complaining. previously, i sent a letter along with dr. adams to chairman fox asking for a hearing on child labor and we have not had it yet.

we have senator casey and a representative sending a letter to the gao asking them because we cannot get it done through committee, to study the situation on child labor. there is also no support for our bill to increase fines for child labor violations. we find that even adjusting for inflation, the funding for enforcement funding is down. with all that going on, can you tell us what some republican governors are doing in the child labor space? sec. su: unfortunately, ranking member, the same time that we see devastating cases involving children working in illegal and harmful conditions, there are some rollbacks in states of child labor protections. rep. scott: thank you. you mentioned showing of her work, isn't it a fact that many

department of labor employees work in places other than the offices, working hard on inspections and things like that? sec. su: yes, yes, yes. rep. scott: and we have had this incredible back and forth about a choice about being an independent contractor or employee. can an employee elect to be an in -- to be an independent contractor and not be eligible for minimum wage or other protections or more accurately in real life, can an employer tell a prospective employee, if you want to work here, you are going to be an independent contractor? and if they say ok, can the employer then strip the employee of their right to minimum wage, overtime, worker's comp., overtime compensation, osha protection or benefits that other employees get because the employee agreed to be an independent contractor? and an employer can save a lot

of money doing that or does the employer have to follow the law? sec. su: employers have to follow the law. rep. scott: the job numbers have been discussed. the bureau of labor statistics -- it happens every month that they revise the last months numbers? sec. su: the revisions to the numbers are part and parcel of what the bl left does and the reason they do that and the reason they are recognized as a most accurate and reliable source of employment information is because they have a vast body of data on which they rely. rep. scott: this is not revising numbers with nothing. in terms of numbers, in the first years of the trump administration -- total numbers for the trump administration ended up losing 2.7 million jobs

total. so far, the biden administration has created 15.2. they talk about the black unemployment, the lowest trump had was 5.3. the lowest biden has gotten his four-point tape. just to put the numbers out there. when trump left office, there was an african-american unemployment of -- .3. the lowest unemployment period under 4% in 50 years -- i don't know how you can spend that other then those are good numbers. and furthermore, the pandemic -- president trump does not get any credit for having the pandemic. he had 10 months of the pandemic all president biden had two years of a pandemic to deal with but he was able to create all of this great economy in spite of the pandemic.

under president trump, the wheels came off and we went into the ditch. mr. chairman, thank you. >> i will recognize the ranking member again for a closing statement. rep. scott: thank you. it is evident that the department of labor under the leadership of the biden administration and legally serving acting secretary su remained committed to uplifting workers and families through policies and prioritizing rights and the well-being of the workers. this might attempt to undermine this progress, the facts speak for themselves. thanks to acting secretary su, wages have increased and critical protections have been restored. and the truthful numbers show it. moving forward, our priority should be to support the biden administration's pro-worker, pro union agenda to advance policies that protect workers rights have foster the economic growth for all. so i thank you acting secretary su for your leadership and for

being focused on improving the lives of workers and their families. thank you, mr. chairman. >> acting secretary su, i'm going to be blunt. it is time for you to step down. this has gotten ridiculous. you have shattered all records as far as an unconfirmed nominee clinging to power. and, you know, regardless of whether this is technically a legal arrangement which is very much an open question, that is why everything the department does is under a legal cloud, it is just wrong. i think every reasonable person looking at this knows it is wrong. this is not the way it is supposed to work. this is not what our constitution puts into place when it comes to separation of powers. there are plenty of people and this country who are qualified to be sec. of labor. and while you are correct you had -- it was appropriate for you to become the interim acting secretary for a short period,

while the new nominee was being confirmed, the fact is it became different when you became that nominee and did not get confirmed. you tried, you tried really hard. you met with a lot of senators. the president, the white house set up a war room to try to get people to confirm you. there was an ad campaign out about it and it did not work out. the senate had ample opportunity to confirm you last year and they did not and were -- and returned your confirmation last year. they had ample confirmation to do it this year and they chose not to. i would implore you to do the right thing. it is time for you to resign and we will get a new secretary that can go through the process and be confirmed by the senate. it is what the american people deserve. rep. scott: the letters that reference earlier be introduced to the record along with a report, slap on the rest taking advantage of workers. >> without objection.

the committee stands adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its

caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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>> i stand here with my colleagues from the arizona delegation, both senate and house and we are close with congresswoman giffords to remember a tragic event that took place, on january 8th, 2011 at 10:10 a.m. in just 19.6 seconds 19 people including congressman giffords and myself were shot in tucson, arizona. this event was democracy in action. a member of the people's house was meeting one-on-one with her constituents. six wonderful people died that day including my friend gabe zimmerman, my go-to guy on the

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