>> oh, my. >> but there are too many votes. is that okay? >> yes, sir. >> if you make two-minute votes, you've done a miracle more than i've ever seen. >> well, we're gonna try. and now i've got to run down there in two minutes too. okay. thank you. >> thanks. that the tax --

american taxpayers are going overseas. they should be going into america. i totally disagree. >> i would like to reconvene the sst committee. thank you for indulging us while we had to cast votes, mr. administrator. thank you. it was good to see you on the floor too. i hope that brought back good

memories. >> okay. we are going to resume our five minutes of questioning by our members. let's see the gentleman from new york, your first for five minutes of questioning. >> i think the chair and the ranking member for this important hearing today. take you to administrator nelson for the work you do to ensure the success of the world's preeminent civil space agency and your awesome leadership that you provide. in new york's capital region, i am deeply proud of the critical research and tech development being done at world-class economic and petitions such as the technical institute. i particularly looking at the r&d that relies on funding from the biological and physical science division within nasa science mission directorate. the funding provides novel opportunities to better

understand the impact of the space environment on those life and physical sciences. discoveries made on the international space station with funding have advanced our understanding of quantum mechanics and helped to facilitate the advancement of semiconductor-based electronics. the bps has also allowed advances in regenerative medicine, osteoporosis treatments, and neurodegenerative diseases. despite how important this is, the directorate remains severely underfunded and acknowledged as such in the recent survey. in fiscal year '23, the budget was 84% less than it was in 2000 four. and as a result, the number of investigators in the state of new york has decreased by some 67%, causing significant reductions in training and negatively impacting the local economy.

specifically at rensselaer polytechnic institute, they currently fund approximately four pis and over 25 graduate and undergraduate students. just a few years ago, that number was closer to seven pis. bps will no longer be sustainable as the number of grants awarded is reduced, and will be forced to change research directions threatening nasa's exploration goals. administrator nelson, how is nelson attempting to be responsive from the biological and physical sciences community in this constrained budget environment? >> congressman, when john glenn first flew, we weren't sure what was going to happen to the physical body. there was even concern that -- with the eyeballs stay in the socket? we had flown a chimpanzee prior.

you just think, when you don't know what is going to be the physical biological reaction and how far we now have advanced where we are realistically giving ready to go back to the moon in order to prepare to go to mars. and so the function of the amount of grants that would go to a university such as the very eminent one you just mentioned in your district is a function of the amount of the budget that you give us. just in sciences and this fiscal year '24, because of the constraints that are upon you and '24 and '25 as a result of the compromise reached to be

able to avoid the default of the full faith and credit of the united states government. for example, just in science, there is a billion-dollar cut in '24. a similar cut and '25. once you get to '26 and don't have the constriction that you have on the budget, i wish that you would. because the area that you have specified our areas that we have to know what is going to happen in order to send humans all the way to mars. the moon is four days away. mars is seven to eight months away. unless we develop the new technologies, such as propulsion of nuclear thermal, nuclear electric propulsion that could

get us there faster. if we go conventionally, six, seven, eight months, then we are going to have to stay on the surface a very long time until the planets realign to get back in seven or eight months. so these are all a part of the challenges, but they are also exciting problems to solve. and we will keep those grants going to universities, because that is a main source of the research that we do at nasa. >> thank you, sir. mr. chair, i have another question i was going to ask, but i'm out of time, so i will follow that to the committee. through this budget process, congress will recognize the crucial progress of this research to help bps and nasa fully realize its mission. with that, i yield back. >> i would like to know recognize the gentleman from

ohio. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it's good to see you again, administrator. it was good to see you in ohio just a couple weeks ago. we appreciate you coming up to cleveland and spending the afternoon with us. having you there was very actual. we had some great conversations, including about the importance of the research center, which is located right into our district. nasa space technology directorate funds a lot of significant priorities for nasa, many of which the research center is involved in. however, funding has been relatively stagnant over the last five years. the fiscal year '25 budget proposes ramping up funding in large part to support a nuclear power system that could operate on the moon. administrator nelson, can you please talk about the importance of fission surface power and why we need to invest in it now and are just further

down the line? and can you please address the role within the project? >> yes, congressman. it was great seeing you in cleveland. before i forget, for congressman tonko, our commander going to the moon, read wiseman on artemis 2, he is a graduate of rensselaer. so congressman, we've got to have more power on the moon. we go to mars, we've got to have more power. particularly as you get further away from the sun you can't rely on all solar power. and so fission surface power is going to be a necessary element. and we are going to start this with the moon. this is part of the reason we

go back to the moon in order to go to mars. the '25 request is 113 million. you want me to get into nuclear electric and nuclear thermal as well, would you want to keep it to fission surface power? >> i'd like to keep it to fission, since that is what's up there. >> well, i certainly respectfully request that you all grant our '25 request of 113 million. >> okay. we will take a look at it. i understand. and i get it. you already acknowledged that it's been a tough year, the last thing we want to do is cut down anyone. we have to make sure we are being responsible and efficient. i'm with you 1000%. i thank you for your earlier answer. nasa glenn research center leaves the communication services project which leverages commercial capabilities to provide next-

generation relay for nasa satellites and to ensure that there is no data gap as the older satellites continue to age. can you speak to the performance of the work performed at glenn, and we have your commitment that you will possibly provide your resources to the center that needs to protect this project quickly? >> you can't fly in deep space unless you can communicate. our deep space communication system ran into a problem because we needed to communicate with all of those science instruments, including the james webb space telescope, bringing back all of that data from deep in space, and low and behold, we had to have the capability of communicating to artemis one and the test flight of the rocket. and we didn't have all the bandwidth that we needed. so we need to improve that.

and this is especially essential as we are going further and further out into space. right now, in low earth orbit, we got enough communications. we can handle that. we need to update its, modernize it, at cetera. but deep space is a different thing. >> if there's anything we can do to work with you, giving the resources or getting education or familiarizing how we can get it more efficient, i would really up initiated. what makes it really glad to hear is your acknowledgment of how important nasa glenn is. not only to our region, but also to the world and the capabilities that we have there. i want to thank you for your time. it's really a pleasure to work with all of you on your. anything we can do in the future to work together, to make sure we continue to evolve and progress in the right way, you have a friend in need. i yield back. >> mr. chairman, if i may,

another example of the deep space communications that we just re-established with voyager i, which is outside of our solar system them approaching interstellar space, and it came back to life. and low and behold, we got it. and where it is located, so far away, at the speed of light, the transmission takes 22 hours. and we just re-established that. >> mr. administrator, what caused that to come back? >> again, these wizards, they do all kinds of things. and this is a spacecraft. a very old spacecraft. voyager 1, i think it was launched back in the 70s. so it is still perking. >> thank you. that is great information.

the gentleman from florida, mr. frost. five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and administrator nelson. with the goals of returning americans to the moon, the artemis program, private partners in all 50 states, and over two dozen in florida's 10 congressional district. artemis is a significant contributor to nasa's four points have in billion-dollar economic impact on central florida alone, and has partnered with the university of central florida on several research projects to support them. this is where my colleague, congressman posey and i, are leading a letter to the subcommittee calling for additional artemis funding to overcome delays and technical complications. mr. administrator, with all the challenges us to complex and cutting-edge program, what can nasa do to minimize delays in the mission cadence? >> first of all, we cannot congressman like you that help us make an additional request.

understand that we are not going to launch until it is ready. and that is because safety is our first. when we put humans on an explosive bomb called a rocket, we are going to do everything possible to make sure it is as safe as possible, realizing that everything is cutting the edge of the envelope that we do. but especially when humans are in the loop, we are going to make it that much more safe. so we are on schedule next year to have four astronauts circled the moon and check out the artemis spacecraft. we are under contract with spacex for september of '26.

to have a lander, of which we would go into lunar orbit, and they would transfer in and go down to the surface for 6 days. obviously, if that lander is not ready, we are not going to fly at that time. but that is the schedule, and that's with the contract calls for. >> the most recent success in the partnership of nasa and the private space industry was a soft landing on the moon's south pole as part of the commercial lunar payload services program. how does the work of the commercial lunar payload services program complement the work of the artemis program? >> they are scouts for us. just like sending scouts out into the wilderness. so for example, one of them that is going on in two of the machines at the end of the year is going to start digging in

the south pole to see if there is water underneath the surface. if there's water, edits and enough abundance, then we have rocket. >> overall, what can we as members of congress do to support the nationwide economic and scientific impact of nasa's work especially when it comes to the artemis program? any day now, we know china will be sending and will do the first mission to bring back things from the far side of the moon. we know funding these programs is in the best interest of our national security and all the work that we do. but what can we as members of congress do? >> there's the old saying, the president proposes and the congress the poses. you are in it. you are our partner. you make it possible for authorizing us to do this stuff , and then appropriating the means by which to do it.

>> and lastly, can you briefly describe some of the scientific highlight the commercial missions in terms of the commercial lunar payload services program? >> oh, yes, sir. or example, this last one, it was an intuitive machine. it caught its leg on the rock as it was coming down, and it tipped over. the fact that it tipped over, it didn't have its antenna pointing in the right direction to receive. it was still faint enough that we could get enough to know that it was a life. there were six nasa experiments on board. now, this is an incredible story of the chairman of the full committee, hal rogers, in his district as a university. they

have big dishes that can support the commercial program. but in this case, the clips -- it wasn't able to communicate. we didn't have enough power from their commercial communications. but morgan state was uniquely positioned that it could also communicate with our government deep space communications that had the power in order to receive that weak signal. and therefore, most of the objectives of the mission were successful with a connection there made through morgan state. that is an example of a daring do that suddenly -- the nasa scientist and the commercial

community and the university were able to figure out in real time. >> thank you so much for your time, mr. administrator, and i yield back. >> i like to recognize the gentleman from new york. >> thank you, mr. chairman. great to see you again. i'm sure being on capitol hill and testifying on these committees is one of your favorite things to do. we have a hometown hero that is in orbit right now on the international space station. dr. jeanette apps is a -- is beloved by her hometown of syracuse, and really is inspired a whole generation of young kids in school and she is the talk of the town and the toast of the town. she's only been up there now for almost two months. can you give us some insight into the importance of her work and her mission while she is up and face?

>> jeanette is an example of the extraordinary ability of our astronauts, their capability. in her case, she had to wait a long time to fly. and yet, she is there on orbit for 6 months performing great science. and maintenance of the international space station. sometimes, our astronauts have great disappointment. the best example that i can think of is slayton. he was one of the original seven . john glenn, he was one of them. and they discovered a heart murmur. and deke was not qualified to fly. and yet, deke then took the role

as the chief of the astronaut office to all of those years of gemini and apollo. >> for dr. epps, if i may, can you talk about how her mission is helping us get back to the moon specifically? >> well, everything that we do on low earth orbit is in preparation for us to have the understanding and the preparation so that we can go further. and that is what we are starting to do, to go back to the moon. not just for the sake of going to the moon, because we did that a half-century ago, but we are going back to the moon to learn in order to go to mars, just like we are doing things in low earth orbit on the international space station to go further. in addition, we are doing

serious science on board the international space station. earlier in the committee hearing , i had testified about things going on on cancer research with the drug he true to and with stem cell research. all of that is going on. and although i don't know jeanette's specific science project that she is working on today, she will be working on a lot of that science. >> we look forward to having her back, but not to use dune. she's got a lot of work to do while she's there. i like to spend the last little bit of our time talking about the draco project and the cooperation between nasa and darpa with nuclear energy and propulsion. are we still on track for a 2026 test lunch? how is the draco project progressing? >> draco is primarily a darpa project. we are working with them on

nuclear thermal. it is a joint nasa darpa project. yes, it is my understanding that it is on schedule. it is testing out nuclear thermal propulsion. that's not the only nuclear propulsion. there's also nuclear electric propulsion, and i hope to get this cranked up and going. why? because we need to go faster to mars. chemical propulsion will get us there in seven or eight months. nuclear thermal, nuclear electric can get us there faster. the reason that is important, if we can go fast, we don't have to stay on the surface on the first time, second time -- a year or two until the planets

realign. we would have a chance of getting back so that we go for a short visit, test out what we needed to with all the symptoms, the equipment, the spacecraft, the landers, et cetera, and get back. i think nuclear thermal and nuclear electric is the propulsion of the future. >> great. if we get nuclear propulsion, sign me up. i'd be happy to go. >> i want to say also conga congressman, the end of the story of deke slayton is that he ended up fine. he did an experimental medical procedure and it worked on the heart murmur. and he was able to fly. years later. and that was a good thing. just think of all the time he had to wait. >> that's a very good thing. >> sure was. >> the gentleman from

california. five minutes. >> thank you, administrator nelson, for your testimony today. as you know, the international space station is authorized to operate through at least 2030. after which time, nasa plans to use commercially developed stations to support low orbit research and development. we are nearly halfway through 2024, to ensure the commercial stations are ready and certified for masses use. i particularly concerned about the risk of losing access to low earth orbit or research. there so many important discoveries and innovations that have been developed thanks to nasa providing this form to do it in space. could you just share with the community what the risk might be, the gap in sustaining how low earth orbit r&d activity, should commercial space stations not be ready, and how might a gap prepare our preparedness and development of low earth orbit ecosystem in

general? >> congressman, we don't intend there to be a gap for the reasons that you just articulated. it is so important that we keep this continued presence of being able to not only research on fantastic things like pharmaceutical discoveries that benefit us here on the face of the earth, but also in preparation for going further to the moon and to mars. for example, we would be training our astronauts in 0g and low earth orbit on a space station before we would send them to the moon or to mars. and so those are just a couple of examples of why it's important. and we do not intend for there to be a gap. and thus, it is all the more

reason that, as you all give us direction in the authorization bills and as you partner with your appropriations committees in giving us the financial means and which to do this that we continue to have the development of this commercial space station that will take the place of when we want to deorbit the space station, because it's getting old. and we want to deorbit it and 2031. >> thank you for that. i appreciate your optimism and thank you. i appreciate your optimism. >> i know recognize miss lee for 5 minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. last year, i had the pleasure of meeting with deputy administrator pam melroy, and i

was really taken by her passion for expanding opportunities in space x duration and stem. when i chose to -- i envisioned an opportunity to work with my colleagues to expand the roma stem education and workforce beyond those that have traditionally had access to them. i hope the work we do and the funding we are advocating for here today will make dreams of so many students from underserved areas. i think of trey von martin, before he passed, wanted to be an astronaut. i think and hope that the funding the advocate for here will make some of those dreams become a reality around our nation. while nasa has no physical infrastructure in my district, pennsylvania's 12th, the businesses in my district are crucial to what the government does. i district won over 58 million in contracts across 19 businesses and universities, including small and women owned

businesses. proposed budget cuts from nasa, 22% or more below the fiscal year of '23 enacted level is an attack on the brilliant minds in our innovative, industrious business owners who fuel american leadership in space exploration and technological development. nasa has extensive partnerships in western pennsylvania. partnerships it relies on to carry out its various missions and mandates. this current congress continue to find new, innovative ways to shortchange or take away from the american people, especially the amazing scientists, students, and workers in my district are helping to you will nasa with technological developments that will vastly improve the human condition here on earth. i will continue to ensure that my region thrives around the space economy. administrator nelson, i congratulate nasa for the two community little play load missions that have flown this year.

these missions have fostered national pride in our missions nations program and considerable momentum for the future. i know there are more missions on the way this year and next, including missions that promise truly groundbreaking science and asked duration opportunities. some of these will also improve renewable energy generation, such as space-based solar power. can you please discuss some of these missions as well as outlining your commitment to lunar discovery and expiration programs? >> i'm from western pennsylvania, pittsburgh. it's a company that is astro robotic. >> i know the one. >> they are going to have a mission later this year with a huge instrument on it. called viper. and it is scheduled, upon landing, to drill down in the

south pole underneath -- maybe go down that far and to see if there is water in abundance. we know that there is ice, because we have seen that in the crevices of rocks that are in constant shadow. so if there is water, then there's rocket you will. hydrogen and oxygen. the eclipse missions that are going, as i had described earlier, are like scouts. they go out and they scout the wilderness for the humans who get there. and that is exactly what we are doing. we will have the south pole of the moon characterized by a lot of these commercial lending missions. usually with nasa instruments. we will have it characterized

much more in depth. at the outset of your remarks, you mentioned something about your admiration of pam melroy. i want you to know that it is very mutual admiration. pam melroy is a real deal. she is the third woman in the air force to be a test pilot, and she is the second woman in nasa to be a space shuttle commander. and so your recognition of talent is certainly right on the mark. >> thank you. i appreciate that. i have two other questions. i am happy to yield back. thank you. >> thank you for your valuable testimony and for the members for their question. the record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written questions from members, and this hearing is

adjourned. >> thank you.