>> from the heart of where money, power, and innovation collide in the heart of silicon valley, this is "bloomberg technology," with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde at bloomberg's world headquarters in new york. paramount replaces its ceo. full coverage ahead. ed: we push ahead to results from amazon and pinterest, all reporting after the bell. caroline: and a former finance ceo at cz heads to prison. checking in on the markets, the

macro picture is not looking good today. you get the costs of labor the moment coming in higher-than-expected and overall confidence from the consumer plunging. meaning that we are not looking pretty heading into a federal reserve meeting that it's tomorrow. the 10-year yield is pushing higher, of course, with borrowing costs rising. that's usually the trend. the dollar, stronger versus the yen, a complete verse from yesterday, it looks as though japan indeed had intervention into the markets to try to prop up again. weaker against the dollar, bitcoin along with other risk assets on the downside, 60 1000 wrapping up to be a poor month of april, the worst since the ftx scandal, down some 16% and seeing a pretty poor month for stocks overall, nasdaq having its worst month since october.

what do you think of the micro? ed: a lot going on, real quick, tesla is down. monday's session, biggest jump since march of 2021 on fsd. we will dig into that later. amd after the bell, how well above or below is it relative to expectations? amazon, after alphabet and microsoft, cloud growth driven by ai, those stories are later in the program. the top story is paramount global. ceo bob bakish is gone, replaced by a committee of executives. they release earnings. no one seems to care. the question is about earnings -- is about m&a in the future. trying to understand what's going on, i love the headline of your research, earnings a nonevent.

summarize what you learned last night. >> yeah, the earnings call was kind of really bizarre. it was a 7, 8 minute call, one of the shortest i have ever seen in the history of media earnings. no questions from the investment community. basically it was just the cfo outlining the details of the quarter and the three-person committee giving a spiel. yes, there were encouraging elements from the first quarter results, but of course m&a is top and center. overall, i think the key take away is that this is peak uncertainty at paramount. we don't know what is happening with ownership or leadership other than it is this committee and it's a stopgap arrangement and there is no clear clue as to the future direction or strategy. caroline: have you ever experienced this lack of clarity coming from leadership?

coming from the company itself? >> yeah, this is a kind of one-of-a-kind situation, caroline. sherry redstone here is desperately trying to get a deal done with sky dance, which is why she had to get rid of bob bakish, who was opposing the deal vocally from the get go. you know, there is a looming deadline. may 3 is the day, friday, when the punitive exclusive negotiations and, so they are trying to do everything in their power to get to that finish line as quickly as possible. caroline: well, we dig into what is an evolving stock -- evolving story with decent streaming numbers. let's continue the conversation with an expert in the field of media and, ultimately, knowing more on what this landscape is like. former president of cnn, executive vp, you understand the

internal workings of these kinds of companies. putting it to you again, there is a corporate governance issue going on at the moment, but what should paramount be trying to do in terms of fundamentals right now? >> i have experienced this for, i was the media advisor to the tv show "succession," mayhem was our middle name. if they had a plot twist that said they were going to dump the ceo two hours before earnings, i would have thrown it in their faces and said no way. look, every acquirer feels that they can either grow an asset or squeeze additional profit out of the distressed parts or just sell off the parts. i wouldn't be surprised if david allison feels that he lands in the growth camp. you know, he's young, he's energetic, he has excellent taste, i love some of the movies he has produced. he has jeff schell as a partner,

who is a very savvy operator, as he was when he was ceo of nbc universal. i think the challenge for any traditional media company in a landscape dominated by tech giants -- right? apple, amazon, google, youtube alone counts for 10% of the tv viewing now on televisions. not on devices. the tech giants are dominating the media landscape. and so, whoever ends up owning paramount has to think hard about that. they have to think about streaming as a strategy, you know? because what streaming does is it unlocks -- ed: i get that, they are technology companies good at technology. caroline and i work quite discussing before the show, i like paramount, i like the

streaming platform, i like halo, it was pretty good. i liked some of the paramount movies. top gun is an example. the transformers movies. who doesn't? what's missing, then? what's the fix? jon: i will tell you, ai. it powers the streaming and allows for smarter programming decisions with more precision targeted marketing decisions. my streaming platform has seen the costs of acquiring a customer drop from $34 to two dollars in one year time thing's precision targeting ai. david allison knows somebody who is pretty good at the ai piece of it, that is his dad. his dad is one of the investment oracles in this. if you add oracle ai power to some of the assets that paramount owns, you inch closer,

anyway, towards the tech giants. they are not a giant yet, the market cap is 350 times smaller than the big boys. but you are headed in the right direction. that would be a smart thing for them to do. caroline: for you this is tech growth coming from sky dance media. a lot of investors have seen erosion in the value of nonvoting stock and frustrated that there won't be open to adding competition. is there a more better way of doing this to get clarity from sky dance and then see what others say the reports of apollo or sony could add themselves? jon: sky dance needs to play it close to the vents in the short -- close to the vest in the short run. to think and up winning the prize as opposed to apollo or sony, they have got to lay out a strategy, which is what the street will be looking for. ai cannot be ignored.

it should obviously be a central part of things. look, family controlled or single entity controlled companies invariably lead to this kind of messiness. whoever ends up with that, at least you would hope that things , the operation would run more cleanly than before. ed: of all of the subscriptions that you can have, where does paramount rank? jon: i'm not alone in saying -- i churn constantly. only 7% of people will tell you that they plan to stick with the streaming platform that they currently subscribe to this month question mark 93% of viewers intend to leave. that is because people watch shows and stars, not platforms. it's equally applicable to netflix and disney plus and all of them. so, you have got to think in terms of franchises that are

driving the bus for a business. for paramount, the first one that jumps into my mind is the nfl. nfl dominates viewership on whatever platform it's on. streaming, amazon prime, or traditional broadcast networks. news streaming services are also drivers of streaming and cvs just rebranded their streaming entity into cbs news 24/7. they have got to be thinking streaming first, direct to consumer first, customer first. ed: and the masters. if you could chunk off a divestment, what would it be? jon: the cable channels, they are just kind of hopeless. they've lost their luster. i think, you know, they tend to just play the same show 50,000 times in a row as a block. i like that as a consumer, i can just put on the office, but it's

a dwindling asset. everyone knows it. it's not a surprise. they have had some offers for some cable channels in the last year. part of that friction was that he didn't sell some of them fast enough or at all. but that is where you have it. ed: i'm just going -- caroline: i'm going to go bigger, it's so interesting, this technology story that you say needs to be injected. apple, you've got a focus on the ai compartment. broadly, do you think that this will be happening elsewhere in the industry? one where we think that m&a or rejuvenation is needed in these legacy businesses? jon: look, the market cap gap is a norm us. the tech giants are 350 times bigger than even the biggest, most well-known traditional media companies. warner bros. discovery, you know ? netflix, even, we have to start thinking about it as a

traditional media company, because they only thing they do is entertainment programming. now they are introducing sports. they have no tech component, they have no theme parks to mitigate risk or anything. pure media company. there is bound to be consolidation. if they are smart about pursuing ai and streaming opportunities, they become a more attractive merger or acquisition target as the smaller players come together. ed: joining "bloomberg technology," they show available on a lot of platforms, alive and well, around for a long time, great to have you. [laughter] coming up, the intensifying tech war between u.s. and china days after elon musk reach that milestone on fst. that conversation, coming up. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

ed: the law requiring tiktok to divest or be banned could be a pivotal moment in what is an escalating rivalry between the u.s. and china in the context of technology. it would almost certainly had to the supreme court, which would have to weigh government security concerns against the free speech of a company and it is all but certain that china will retire he ate against the u.s. according to those who watch the chinese government sponsors closely. there is a lot to discuss right now in the relationship between china and the u.s. in the context of tech, into do that we bring in the ceo and founder of research at jail war and capital.

-- jl warren capital. a chinese giant, bytedance, saying they have no plan to sell or divest tiktok in the states, but it is somewhere the states are not going to accept. your view on that outcome? >> it's inevitable that the two entities through u.s. operations will be separated through the parent. they are way too rich in content and sensitive. by the same token, i think the recent announcement of tesla by duke is very specific as a situation. broadening the escalating tension between the u.s. and china. caroline: that's interesting, it feels as though there are two different narratives. if you are a company already within china who can do their ship within china, as we have

seen tesla and baidu, for example, you will be allowed to continue and thrive, potentially . but others, this will not be occurring. what do you think about these chinese companies trying to make their presence known in the united states? temu, for example. will that be allowed, or is it case-by-case? junheng: it's ok if you are small and under the radar. when you get to a certain scale and draw attention it become sensitive, topical, political. that broad political tension is happening and is unlikely to be resolved anytime soon. ed: junheng, your specialty, your research is largely on u.s. companies with exposure to china. what was your reaction to tesla getting tentative approval for fsd? junheng: i think the market runs

ahead of itself by so much. the partnership, you could call it a milestone. it's really light in the terms. think about 25 years ago when ford, gm, mercedes came to china. they needed to have a joint venture in order to gain the license or ability to manufacture and sell cars in china. in this case, it's kind of similar. tesla is a foreign entities. to be able to collect data and to do what it does in the u.s., it needs a local partner. in this case, it is baidu. it can't be anyone. baidu will be scoring other data on the road and supervising the data usage. before the data gets returned to tesla or for foreign computing. what we do not know, and which is critical to this puzzle, is how the data will be computed.

onshore or offshore, using what capability. that's the critical sort of peace that's missing. the market just runs ahead of itself. caroline: it's such an interesting point. to the question on partnership, my study of the chinese autonomous driving landscape, baidu has its own ambitions for autonomous driving. tesla could have gone with anyone, as you point out. why do you think they went with baidu as opposed to another robotaxi company? junheng: it could be anyone. baidu is just the gate keeper on the behalf of the government. what is also unknown is if the kickoff of this fsp program in china, whether it is broadly applicable to all tesla vehicles on the road in china or just applicable to a demos fleet,

about a couple of dozen, you know, driving baidu stuff, supervising, understanding data collection assessed that's unknown and critical. caroline: critical for its longer-term value as a business standing apart from other auto companies and legacy businesses because of its ai plan. i'm therefore interested if you think there's more value there going on between tesla and china or if that is a sacrifice that ultimately has to be made. junheng: in china, tesla is not a leader in fst or autonomous driving, because it didn't have the license to collect data. it doesn't have the data. whereas the competition, hallway -- juawei, others, they

have driving systems on the road . they use the nvidia orange chip with in-house coding. that is there respective solution. so, i think the partnership is beijing expressing a sort of relaxation of discrimination against american companies, saying now we allow you to have access to the data under the supervision of a chinese entity. you can make good use of the data so that you are on will footing with your competition in china. that's the extent of it. caroline: an interesting landscape that you continue to bring clarity on,. -- clarity on, junheng li. thank you. top analyst earnings estimates after a chipmaker division returned to profitability. they had been leading a surgeon spending on ai services.

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xi-chun, xi-chun, xi-chun! you've got more options than you know. book now. caroline: colleges in the united states, many confronting pro-dem and -- pro-palestinian demonstrations on campuses with campus life really thrown into turmoil as the academic year comes to a close. columbia in new york, and -- dozens of students barricaded themselves in hamilton hall on tuesday, covering security cameras. we want to go live to columbia university. on the ground is scarlet fu. making it clear, this is happening in the u.s., europe, outside german parliament at the moment, at the sore bone.

it's a global element. what is happening on the ground right now with you? caroline -- scarlet: this is ground zero for the pro-palestinian protest three -- sweeping the world. dozens entered hamilton hall. one of the banners says free palestine. another one says intifada. they are occupying the building and have covered security cameras with black trash bags. this is a building that is of course story to because it has a history of student occupation. 1960 eight, students protested against the vietnam war. 1985, students took over to demand that they divest from companies that do business in south africa during apartheid. from that they are taking inspiration in making demands this time around. it's clearly an escalation from the encampments that students

set up about two weeks ago on the south lawn in front of hamilton hall, when the president of columbia testified before congress. the school gave the students a deadline of 2 p.m. monday, yesterday, to clear the encampments. some did, but some chose to double down. ed: specifically, what are they demanding? i just don't get it. scarlet: they want financial transparency when it comes to the endowment that columbia has, as well as divestment. divesting from israeli companies and companies that do business with the israeli government. easier said than done, given that they don't invest in bonds directly. they invest in hedge funds and hard assets. it's difficult to untangle all of that. ed: scarlet fu on the ground in columbia. thank you. we'll be right back. this is "bloomberg technology."

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caroline: we welcome our bloomberg audiences worldwide to discuss what's occurring at paramount. we will shine a light on how shares have been trading lower after first-quarter earnings beat expectations. but what has taken the focus of a wall street is the ceo, bob bakish, stepping down and being replaced by a trio of executives, now dependent seemingly on an interim basis to lead paramount amid an ongoing speculation over a deal with sky dance. we want to get to a key long-term investor and paramount who has been in there since 2006, who believes in the streaming opportunity and value of its content, john rogers, the co-ceo. you have been throughout this business in its many integrations. first i want to focus on growth

being borne out by the business and streaming thanks to the super bowl, overshadowed by the departure of bob bakish. what did you make of the new -- the move? >> it was shocking to us. we hadn't seen anything remotely like this. it's extraordinary. it cannot be good for shareholders to have all of this uncertainty in earnings season. in the middle of a merger and acquisition transaction. you are negotiating charter communications. all of these important things are happening at once. you need the ceo in place. this has been very disappointing, disheartening. in the context of what you said, business has been getting better. a lot of the initiatives that bob and his team have worked on are starting to show fruition. the timing seems extremely

problematic. let's -- caroline: let's talk about why bob bakish exited. he felt that the, supposedly, the negotiations were not in his agreement. sherry redstone, this seems to be the deal she is looking for from sky dance. how are you currently dealing with the reports around a so-called sweetened deal? what would you make of those reports from paramount sky dance? -- paramount and skydance? john: we don't know enough. we've had some good information confirmed, but if this transaction really is focused on skydance, we think that may possibly have a chance to work, but much rather see apollo deal with sony that has been so alluring out there, to get certainty of the apollo

world-class firm with extraordinary resources. sony has proved to be so successful in this industry. it seems like a marriage made in heaven. we would not rush to the altar with a smaller company that is not as proven as apollo and sony. ed: john, good morning. it's ed in san francisco. you have help this idea that we should look at other authors -- offers on the table for a while. do you hold that belief, that other all -- other offers will be looked at? john: that is what we hear. management has been nothing but straightforward with us regarding hearing about all shareholders. employee basis have the secondary shares and we have been very hopeful that they were going to do the right thing for shareholders, something they have committed to us consistently. we believed them and continue to think that you don't need to rush.

when things are going well, this is not a melting ice cube. it's a company in recovery and a turnaround mode. the price that sky dance is suggesting seems to be a much lower than what we would get from the apollo sony deal and many others that could possibly be out there, if this company was truly shocked around. we know several independent directors committed to doing what's fair for all shareholders , so i'm hoping they will be able to get to the finish line. ed: what will this ownership structure m&a path change fix for paramount? john: apollo, sony, they would have in orbis resources. sony has been an expert at being an arms dealer, using content in ways to generate cash flow,

contents, have the extraordinary library paramount brings. the history of their lot, where they have been able to make movies for generations. there will be enormous synergies. synergy between sony and paramount are much greater than you can smaller company like skydance, so we are hopeful that you would be able to get rate synergy, higher cash flow, and an experienced management team making those tough calls about how much to use content there with other competing services like netflix. we want that kind of experienced leadership that has been proven. i know that there are some other large streamers out there that could get into the mix. caroline: we are of course with john rogers of arielle investments. registry issues with the potential tieups, is that a concern for you?

john: i think it's a modest concern for the large guys out there. i understand that people would be worried if netflix, for example, were to purchase paramount global. but ultimately, i think that if people are looking at this for the long run, there has been a lot of litigation around the regulatory constraints out there in today's economic system, ultimately rational people will see that you want to see paramount plus collapse. you want to see those jobs lost. you want to see a world-class american company in disarray? or you want to see a great parent that can merge and have a successful growing business over the next decade or so? i'm hopeful regulators will be able to have an open mind about the various possible accommodations out there and i think that the apollo sony deal should not have significant regulatory concerns. caroline: you wrote to your

investor saying that you felt it was your fiduciary duty to raise concerns. particularly from a corporate governance perspective. you have held this stock throughout iterations and seen the fact that there was this controlling shareholder. did you worry that this might ever evolve from this corporate governance structure? your particular worry was the fact that three independent or members recently stepped down amid the m&a speculation. john: i have never in all of the years of owning stocks with dual class shares, i've never seen a scenario where the a shareholders were going to get a significantly larger premium than the b shareholders. it's something we have never seen before. we've seen a lot of smart investors. we know that warren buffett has been a shareholder, mario cavalli, other good and smart

people looking at this. we always felt that people would do the rational and right thing for all shareholders. management told us. that is what sherry said overtime. it's something that came as a real true surprise and something again like we have never seen before. ed: i watch "the masters" on paramount plus. i liked "halo." what do you like about their existing portfolio offering? caroline: you started in the right -- john: you started in the right place, they have extraordinary content that you must see. the grammys were great. you mentioned the masters. they've got great scripted shows. the csi franchise. news franchises like cbs, 60 minutes. it's a robust history. on top of it you put this extraordinary library with the paramount greats like "mission

impossible," "the godfather." they've got pluto, and extremely successful streaming service. worldwide asset that are extremely valuable and seem to get ignored by the analyst community. so, they have a well diversified group of assets, many hidden assets. real estate that hasn't completely been utilized. institutions like showtime and bet that i wish they had found a way to sell earlier. they are true assets to the company and people get into groupthink, worried about cord cutting, forgetting to value all the assets that paramount global has. caroline: you are a value investor who looks at the value. you also say don't sell into chaos. what do you do if a deal with sky dance goes ahead? john: we been looking at all of

our options and we wrote a letter to the board of directors explaining our position. we've been speaking to general counsel, she's been terrific and on top of those issues. we are looking at all of our alternatives and we will see how it all plays out, but we would like to see it play out in a way that's constructive because it would not be a good thing for sky dance to be trying to buy a company or you are in litigation with your shareholders, many of your shareholders, and at the same time your senior management will not be happy if the deal isn't fair for the management team shareholders. as we all know, m&a is difficult in the best of circumstances. getting the centerpiece and the tough calls that have to be made done. it would be a difficult environment for them to be successful when you could have a cleaner deal with and -- a company like apollo and sony. ed: john, thank you for your time.

john: thank you. ed: coming up, pushing ahead to earnings after the bell. taking a look at the state of advertising ahead of pinterest results. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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caroline: you are looking at a live shot of the principal. at the top of the hour, our open bloomberg crypto" show. stay with us, this is bloomberg. ♪ ed: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." quick check on the markets in three names we are looking at because they report earnings after the bell. you are either an ai story or an advertising story or both. the story is clear, this is their current generation ai

accelerator. they were on track for 3 billion in sales this year, but will they pull ahead of intel question mark above or below? that's the story. amazon, the bar is so high following alphabet earnings. both showed growth in a cloud sales, but gave us numbers or evidence that contributions to cloud growth specifically came from ai. amazon, in that case it's more interesting but overall topline growth, but it is the first quarter where since january they put ads in prime video. does that show up as revenue question mark pinterest is not seeing growth, but the street thinks it might be ok. on the whole, maybe advertising is not so bad. caroline: pinterest is just a different type of business, isn't it? the fact that we have seen them focusing in on it being a safe and optimistic place in the current political narrative. ed: one thing i would like to

know is like ads meaning what? ai ads? i still don't quite get that story. caroline: we have someone who knows everything about ads and ai, lisa schneider, measuring if those campaigns are appearing next to the presumed content. spotify, links, snap, you name it, you measure it. i'm really interested in what ultimately your bread-and-butter business has been looking like of late. have brands felt more secure to come in line your ads up next to -- use more meta-, pinterest, snap and the like. lisa: we are a leading digital quality company and we focus on what you are speaking to, measurement operation for 2000 brands worldwide. we work with the leading platforms and publishers.

we have built a technology backed by ai to multimedia classification technology. we are in the live feeds of all the major social platforms and are classifying video, image, audio, and texts, insuring the brands are running adjacent to brand safe and suitable content. caroline: has the data been getting better? lisa: absolutely. we have highly sophisticated technology, forecasting frame by frame. what i mean by that is if there is a 32nd tiktok video running, we are classifying every single second of that tiktok video to ensure brands are not running adjacent to unsuitable content like hate speech and violence. as we rolled out recently, misinformation. ed: is pinterest a content platform that you take

seriously? lisa: the brands take them all seriously, including pinterest. as you look at the size of the digital advertising market space and the fact that advertisers are ordering billions and billions into digital advertising, they want to ensure that an independent verification company like integral add science classifies and verifies the quality of the media and that we are holding platforms accountable and responsible, again ensuring that we are identifying the inappropriate stuff and helping advertisers run their brands adjacent to more appropriate brand suitable content. caroline: you will see how those social media companies have benefited from that. lisa, thank you for being here. ed, what have we got coming up? ed: a billionaire behind bars, dying into the sentencing hearing of the binance empire.

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how am i going to find a doctor when i'm hallucinating? what about zocdoc?

so many options. yeah, and dr. xichun even takes your sketchy insurance. xi-chun, xi-chun, xi-chun! you've got more options than you know. book now. caroline: the billionaire founder of the binance crypto exchange is starting his hearing

today. prosecutors are recommending three years in prison, double the maximum guidelines prescribed. olga, what are we expecting? olga: we are expecting the hearing perhaps to last not very long, a couple of hours. cz will probably speak at the hearing. his lawyers are pushing for probation and a much less harsh sentence then what the prosecution has asked for. of course, you will recall that in november, cz pled guilty to a number of charges, agreeing to pay a $50 million fine. binance agreed to a $4.3 billion fine. today we will find out sort of what happens to him. he still retains his ownership of binance, which has been doing

extremely well, especially in this year's crypto bull market, driven by the introduction of u.s. spot bitcoin exchange traded funds. caroline: olga, we thank you for an amazing read. it's the big take today. go online, go check it out, ultimately it's about the fortune of cz and how it doesn't seem to be dented anytime soon, prison time or not. meanwhile, there is a whole raft of crypto news to get into. investing directly in crypto debuting in hong kong. is this competition work u.s. bitcoin products? will it bring in u.s. investors? elise joins us now. it's still a bitcoin venture firm. you have been doing this a long time, looking at the protocols and use cases a bitcoin. this is the spot etf?

what does it mean for the industry? it's the first time we have seen it perform against the crypto atf and much of the activity was in bitcoin etf. we saw $13 million in trading activity, a lot for the hong kong market. china reported 141 million dollars in assets under management with 86% of that in the bitcoin spot etf. ed: why is it important that we have multiple markets? the other day we talk about australia picking a place in the market. alyse: it's a great question. the prices of product of the adoption and expansion of the utility set.

as the etf's are adopted in new geographies, we are bringing a new group of users in for a regulated product that relies on a custodian. we are bringing it closer to having a 24/7 spot etf market with the addition of hong kong. caroline: i'm interested in hong kong specifically because of its relationship with china and its regulatory oversight. what does it mean for the chinese relationship with crypto? alyse: exactly, many are interested for the same reason. in the launch of these spot etf's in hong kong, people in china do not have access. so, it is a more curtailed audience, of course. that said, we are still introducing an entirely new audience. one that, one that thinks differently, has different, has

exposure to different media sources. we expect that this is a positive sign for broader proliferation of bitcoin products in hong kong and in the region exposed to this product. ed: we really appreciate your real-time global perspective. unfortunate -- fortunately for our audience, there is more coverage of those etf's and cz sentencing in the next hour. the understanding is that in the hearing, a lot of that will kick off around midday new york time, 9:00 a.m. out here in the west. caroline: perfect if you want to digest that in real-time with a crypto show. teasing ahead to it, that's our job, done. ed: yeah, a massive aftermarket earnings situation that we will be tuned into. thank you for listening to the

podcast. this is "bloomberg techno." ♪ sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh

finale: live from bloomberg i'm sonali basak. tim: i'm tim stenovec. finale: crypto's richest man, the bytedance co-founder learned his fate in a u.s. court with proceedings underway facing up to three years in prison for anti-money laundering failures. tim: we speak about the case and the price action in bitcoin slumping since hitting a record high. sonali: hong kong falls in the footsteps of the u.s. debi