so that is afflicted by conflicts, political upheaval, some of those we talked to elsewhere saying that they fled up to a hearing that other villages had been a talk. what we do. and also sarah is trying to balance the stories, the good, the bad, the i'd be tell it as it was. and he's the people who allow us into their lives, dignity into minus. he asked me to tell this story. the hello on the thought of this discount and the cost of that i would just say a weekly look to the world of business and economics this week. cooling university funding into question, protest is mainly in the us to non that schools divest them israel. so that's one, gaza, so how do they make them money? who should rebuild ukraine?

us moves to make russia pay for its invasion. must go, threatens to retaliation. billions of its state assets of confiscate. sell, take, talk or face upon the us is cracking down on the apps chinese own a bind done. so how will it and millions of american businesses be affected the now from columbia university in new york to the university of southern california and los angeles protests against israel as war on gaza spread across major american colleges. protest system ons, very in scope from school to school, but there is one common message disclose and divest students, one that universities to be more transparent about where the schools money is going . and all these institutions are banned in a range of investments and companies. they say i could place it in genocide, so does divestment work. we'll discuss that with, i guess shortly. but 1st,

who focusing sharif reports for children that's becoming a major coverages in the united states. students from campuses in the east coast to the west have united their voice against east was full on goal. so that's given nearly 35000 palestinians since october, columbia, you, unless the new york process began more than 2 weeks ago. they are closed for does this come from mister? beside the school has an endowment fund of community, $13000000000.00. protest is one, the institution to separate ties with companies linked to this red folder. profiting from its vote on casa, the include to johns like google and microsoft defense companies like lockheed martin, an investment from black crow among others. this is not a matter of simply if i only think universities. this is a movement,

an anti war movement. the university has suffered, refused to divest from each well put full foot to make investments in health and education. in casa students, reacted by taking over the tempest building. the police were called in to pay a demonstration suspect to separate colleges in the us with some nicole's to disclose inside this at hubbard the which is university in the us been endowment fund of more than 50000000000 dollars for testing students wanted to re investors sources in palestine and academy initiatives, communities, and culture, and at university of southern california, they've called for the school to ended study abroad programs. and this one comes with the students and separate teachers have been arrested across the country. the

protest to see the be not stop the is the real state filings go to show that our universities are stared. and that is why the over reacting with violence because they know the students have the power they know their students across the country are united fortunate investments from campuses in the us for pets have spread to several colleges in for some months. now, globally, most demonstrations have been calling for a ceasefire from the streets. the jones encompasses the world over with close to divest from each one and the consumption east. i'll just see the company. so how do you ever cease make their money? well, they rely on the tax exempt donations, the run into billions of dollars to fun, things like scholarships, research and even stuff salaries. the national association of college and

university business offices. so it's at least 700 institutions, hold nearly 840000000000 and endowment assets, colleges and universities invest this money across financial markets and stokes hedge funds, businesses and real estate, protesting students, one that universities to withdraw or divest their in dominance from his rated companies and businesses to profit from israel on gaza. they want the money to be reallocated to more ethical investment ventures, which in turn compressor, a company or government to change policies. and there's a history of student activist targeting endowments during demonstrations in the 1980s they successfully persuaded universities to divest from a pop type south africa. and more recently, universities have divested from fossil fuels and private prisons. well, joining us from new york is melody kemp. she's a professor and director of the weather head sense of international affairs at harvard university. if i, if i will welcome to thanks for joining us. when it comes to these investments,

the buying of stocks and shares homeless due diligence to universities across the united states. do before they spend the costs before they invest the money? well, they usually, boards of universities, corporations or universities are in charge of establishing the general investment strategy. so they construct their investment manager or what to invest in, in broad terms or what to avoid. but most of the time, university boards outsource the management of university endowments, university funds to professional investment managers. so they're not in the weeds of exactly what is going on as, as i said, they can adopt the broad principles of what they do and do not want to invest in. but they're not necessarily deeply involved in what choices are made for specific assets to be invested in and not respect practically how easy is it then for

universities to divest from israel? i mean, it's certainly possible. uh, but uh, if it is not easy in, in the sense of turning around immediately. well, 1st of all, this is taking for, under the assumption that this is a choice at universities. we're making that choice itself, i think is going to be a complicated one because of the whole arising nature of this issue in the united states. but let's say that a just that decision was adopted. it is operationally complex because it's difficult to get the micro level data to know what exactly is in the investments market was, but it's not impossible. it just would take some work and it would not be a fast turnaround decision that we've seen the success of divestment in the past, particularly when it comes to a pa, 5 south africa. what is different this time around? do you think? yeah, so this is a much more polarizing issue at present. now let me emphasize that south africa was

not a doing deal from the beginning. this is a campaign that took years and years and then making to come to fruition. so these kinds of divestment campaigns can work, but they often don't work overnight. now the question of israel palestine is particularly polarizing in the united states. and so i think this is a very tall order. it's more complicated as well because you have a lot of congressional intervention here, as we know from what's going on regarding israel and the campus drama is that are playing out right now. there's also donor interest in israel as well. donors that are major contributors to american institutions. and so, so this makes it all the more complex this issue. it's more polarizing then let's say climate change sort. tobacco has been these kinds of public health issues that have a guided investment in divestment decisions on university campuses. what about the

potential financial and impact on places of learning universities across the us because students have potentially being expelled or simply puts off wanting to study of these kind of institutions because of the handling of all of this. so well it is, this is a really challenging issue right now in the united states. and what's, what's interesting, if you look across the landscape of universities where these protests are playing out, university administrations have adopted radically different approaches ranging from iran, arrests and expulsions. and so forth. as you mentioned, there are a couple of universities that have adopted a more conciliatory approach and have agreed to actually speak with protesters like, for example, brown university or northwestern university. so there's a divergence of approaches here, but there is definitely across the board, concerns about ty, batsmen and universities are very worried about rocks in their endowment values and

on the returns from endowments. and so this is a major concern that divestment will affect the value of endowment payouts. of course, a behind all of this is a desire to direct israel to shape its form policy, to have an influence on the next decisions that it makes in regards to the war and gaza. how much do you think will divestment actually impact is or so my sense is that financially it will have a minimal effect. but this is not necessarily about the financial ramifications of divestment. it's more about the moral ramifications. and so divestment is as much an ethical moral campaign as it is a financial campaign. and i think that's where the impact promises to be more profound. because the causes that are at the center of divestment campaigns are causes that become debates about moral and ethical issues. and so i think this

is the real issue is what's the impact of the investment campaigns on public opinion around the american relationship with israel, and particularly support for israel's military activities? all right, melanie, to come a great to have you on counting the cost. great, thank you so much. now the one goes that has led to renewed calls to boy account is right. the products for you is palestinians of those international sanctions to be imposed in order to pressure israel to end this occupation. but for many and they don't get by the westbank is what, how strangle hold on the economy is a major obstacle for the boy called movement. he, the emperor him has moved from bethlehem. around the world, people are echoing palestinian calls to boy eclipse and sanction israel activists. why didn't the focus after the world garza, i don't know, targeting multinational companies,

the tooth support to israel. the, the sales of mcdonalds and starbucks amongst others have declined and there's talks took a hit, but in the occupied territory is real dominates the economy. this leaves palestinians with little to no free choice when it comes to spending their money and will call me boy clots. he's one way of resisting these really occupation. yes. become fully boycotts because they control. i want to few and electricity, but i can inflict 55 percent losses instead of 100 percent. then i well, it's hard to measure the losses from the boy. what's campaign? what the boosted. tell us to mean businesses like this to the factory. soon. these cans will make their way to jordan. we're both part of israel has been growing dramatically. this id is well controlled, import and export. and they often impose heavy volumes in texas and overall materials. we know it's because they don't want palestinians to have factories

under independent the economy. the city is do not control the board. there's. so all the exports and inputs are subjected to, as well as the restrictions bands and closures. these restrictions have forced the 1st part of the city and mushroom company to shut down. it was open to challenge of these really domination of the market. a solid jazz each is a founder of the company and an active as the boy thought the campaign. what support that is or tries to do is break. the palestinians dominate no punished indians and that includes keeping them at the disadvantage uh economically. uh, so keep the economy under control to force their own economy on you product so on. but these radio for these have little control over at home made products like these . this is a local initiative to support small skid projects making had made so crafts and

food for many boards. but the thing is where the product also gives people the opportunity to support small project. any money that does not go to israel, they say, well instead help support the palestinian comedy, survived the difficult economy conditions that he and just the to the occupied westbank, palestine. the, the, according to the well bank, $411000000000.00 is needed to rebuild ukraine. the us senate allies one must go to pay for its invasion. congress has passed a bill that could allow key if to use some of russia's frozen assets west, the nation's 1st $300000000000.00 in russian fund holdings at the start of the conflict. and most of that money is held in europe and financial institutions. the kremlin has now threatened to retaliate if its assets are confiscated. russia's real estate news agency says the west steps to lose assets with $288000000000.00 if

it's raising funds to seize. according to ria, the top investors in the russian economy includes the cypress remove in $98000000000.00. the netherlands with 50000000000, the u. k, with nearly $19000000000.00. it also reports that germany has $17000000000.00 invested fronts, $16000000.00 and easily, well, most, $13000000000.00 germany has pushed back on the plan to use frozen russian assets. it physically could set a precedent and lead to new lawsuits against the country for world war 2 crimes. berlin has paid $90000000000.00 in payments this compensation to holocaust survivors and their families. the us roughly has $5000000000.00 in russian assets and is unlikely to seize them without the agreements of the group of 7 nations out of your opinion. the issue will be discussed at the upcoming g 7 summit in italy in june. well, joining us now from brussels is to raise or follow on. she's the director of the

center for russia, europe, and asian studies, and is a senior fellow of the chicago council on global affairs, a very well welcome to accounting the call. so the us very much covering it alone with these measures against russia. how are they being viewed back in europe and is the you likely to follow suit? it was inside the us. there's even consternation about this. some legal scholars would argue that this move is unlawful, nevertheless, a good set of dangerous precedents for other u. s. allies. for example, israel from the european perspective. as you noted, germany is very concerned about war, reparations that poland and greece routine lead past 4 and japan, which is part of the g 7, is also concerned how south korea would ask for war reparations. so this could just be one way of bringing russia to the negotiating table. it's difficult at this moment to know how much of it is kurt and how much of it is sick. of course,

russia has several potential leave is to pull itself as well given, as we mentioned in the introduction that how much your pin money is deep in to the russian economy. what are the repercussions of russia hitching back for the years? or they have been seizing assets from various companies, and others are quietly continuing to do work in russia. so they want to preserve their already existing investments. we saw at the beginning of the war, the oil industry just pulled out and left like 25000000 on the table. so they understood that this might be a long term war, where someone middle sent companies from germany and italy is also a very deeply concerned about their enterprises. so this is a lever that can be used by russia to kind of divide and conquer european opinion on this. this will be, i imagine that there will be some sort of a compromise agreement, worked out at the g 7, control sure. in any way,

pushed back legally against this attempt to make the country pay for the invasion, paying for the ongoing conflict. and you can it is an unprecedented and international law. so there are some legal questions and if we start pulling on some of the tapestry of international legal agreements, the whole thing might unravel. so russia has complained that this is a form of international piracy. and they, they really thought that by parking a lot of their assets abroad, that they wouldn't be safe. so this is also being watched very closely and carefully by being who is also trying to learn ways to, to protect their assets. should any frustrate crisis with taiwan? blow up into conflict, you mentioned to beijing that because one of the things noticed since the start of the conflict is the direction that moscow is now looking when it, when it comes to its investments and the increasing exports. looking very much to china, looking very much to india, i wonder what happens to global trade shirts. the wrong leave is be pulled too soon,

perhaps by the e u. and by the united states. i think europe is very apprehensive. they have made it very clear. they're not going to do anything this year on this that they might consider it in 2025. so they're kind of crossing the river by feeling the stones to see how this will move. i think the us is trying to kind of pull them along by passing this legislation, but it's unclear what action to us will take right now. i think they are trying to pull other countries within to influence them. but there's also demands by central eastern european leaders, fearful that with the new trump administration should he, when deluxe the us selection of, that's all, bets are also put in his gambling that trump will be re elected, and that he'll have a better outcome. so there's a, a time element involved in all of this as well. so i think there's a big gamble going on here to attend. we'll see how he plays that plays it out if he can spin this as long as possible with the europeans waiting to see how the

election turns out as well. so they're not willing to stick their neck out either. but as you're, as you know, that in your earlier uh, programming, that's the most of the russian assets are parts throughout europe. so that you're really has a lot at state care. us is only about 5 to 6000000000. now there's probably close 217000 individual sanctions against russia were imposed by the us and paul and the countries. despite an exodus of hundreds of major international companies, mcdonald's ikea to name a few, the international monetary fund expects roches economy. never the last 2 to grow in 2024. i'm almost double that so of what the united kingdom is expected to achieve sanctions appear. not to really hit the mock and most scale have a exactly, and we've seen incredible ability of russia to get around sanctions. we've seen increases, for example,

300 percent exports from projects done and armenia for example. so countries that companies are finding routes to get around sanctions. so this is going to be a big issue. this also sends a, a positive message to beijing that proposed sections or promise sanctions who they do anything might not really be as watertight as, as they might have expected prior to their observed experience. but russia has gone through, so there's a will, there's a way, and we've also seen a lot of, you know, russia has a oil that they've been able to explore it in a brace on way, which is actually quite dangerous for the environment. there's a lot of leakage, but they've had a lot of money coming in from that. and they're, they're backed by china. they have a lot of increased trade with china. china has been filling back out and are questions about how much time is actually eating rushes a base for keeping up the were and you can right to raise a file and great to have you on counting the costs. thank you. thank you. sell up

or vanish from american stools. president joe biden has signed a bill that could lead to a nationwide bottom tech talk if it's chinese or in a bind does, doesn't divest from the app. but the deadline is in about a year's timeouts off to have the 2024 election. politicians of worried tech talk may shift sensitive, use a data with the chinese government. the company is always denying the allegations and says it will challenge what it calls an unconstitutional law in cold. well, the stakes are high for take talk, losing its biggest market with a 170000000 uses. the video sharing app helps generate billions of dollars for more than $7000000.00 american businesses, as opposed to move in $224000.00 jobs. the legal by 4 could take mama, so he is to settle. meanwhile, take talk will likely still be available in the us in the band take talk in 2021 other countries including britain, australia kind of the in front of bloated on official devices. we'll discuss all of

this. joining me now from berlin is frederica kinda so you know, she's a tech policy expert, a very well welcome to you. so let me start by asking you, this was the us. what is the us rights about it's fee is around to take talk of this parent company by does i think the fears are correct. the responds raises some really serious questions and consider that precedent. so they're basically 2 main concerns about tick tock. the 1st one is like any other social media app, take talk class, connect vast amounts of data. and the fear is that because the chinese government has a lot of influence of a companies in the territory like by dance the theories that the chinese government could access data and over a 170000000 us americans. so that's the privacy issue. the 2nd series about manifestation in the election into parents take service on popular because of the algorithm is really good at recommending content. it's very hard to see from the

out send how and why content is recommended and how content is being moderated. again, the american fear here is that this means that the app could be influenced by the chinese government to spread misinformation for censorship and to influence the election. so those are the concerns. however, there are many things to us government could do. instead of bending the app wholesale, if the button does go into 4, so it won't be for at least 9 months time. and the assumption is that there may well be some illegal pushback from take talking his parent company by dance as well . it does pay the question that for this, this purely a political move, especially as one a former us president donald trump seemed keen on finding take talk to. don't think this is a purely political move, as seems to be a bipartisan support or bi partisan concern. about tip top, trump tried to ban the trump tried to ban the up when he was in office. it failed to do a legal challenge. now this is the 2nd attempt at banding the app we will expect

legal challenges coming from picks up who claim that a band violates the 1st amendment. so i don't think it's in a cold there real concerns. it's still a very bold move to just banning and tie up when the united states, for instance, could implement the comprehensive data privacy law that currently doesn't exist. the us could implement a platform law, a platform regulation such as the european union has that workforce. all social media apps including takes up to be much, much more transparent about how they operate. microsoft, oracle, even need lots of being the slightest potential buyers of take talk. how to go about buying a company like this. how much does it even cost? i think 1st of all, the question is would by dentist, even one to sell take talk. so the chinese government passed the law. that means the government has to agree to any purchase of critical technology and take talk

and it's algorithm have been deemed critical. so the 1st question is with the chinese government even agreed to establish take the, the 2nd one is the price tag a tick tock of us is take talk, the largest market already set 170000000 jews us. last year, the financial times reported 60000000000 in sale. they are very few american companies that couldn't even afford a purchase of an athletic talk. given the number of uses in the united states and indeed the globally, those bank, the question, what sort of impact of bond on 6 on that i would have on small businesses for instance. but use take talk is a really important marketing tool. for instance. what we've seen from other countries in india has been take talk a few years ago. we've seen that a small businesses influences move on to other platforms. not all people have a latch falling on. take talk have the same following. let's say on instagram, on other apps. so there's a question whether some people lose out in this move,

but we've generally seen a cheaper shift to other apps when an outcome send. is there any scope, you know, so would, is there any scope here, sorry to interrupt for china to potentially retaliate if uh, this button goes ahead. a lot of china, a lot of american apps already banned in china. i think it's definitely not a positive step towards good us, chinese relationships. okay, frederica, come figured out great to have you on come to the costs many. thanks. thank you. well, that's our show for this week. get in touch with us on the x, fully known as twitter names baka, and to use the hash tag a j, c t c. when you do or drop as an e mail account and the costs of that which is 0, don't net is a address. but there's more for you online that i'll just here a don't. com slash c t c. cancel the cost that will take you straight to our page, which has individual reports, links and into episode speaking,

to catch up on quote out soon for this additional comments on the call. so i'm the fuck out from the whole team. thanks for joining us and use this next. you'll notice here the unique perspective. why is it the doctors don't get to have a site in any of the medical workforce has been so under valued by the british government for such a long time on hub voices. tick tock had been a place for organizing politically, for getting people to vote for getting people to protest, connect with our community and tap into conversations you weren't find elsewhere. why is our government taking us to work on the basis of live? we? the public has to get out there and do something about it. the stream on al jazeera, 11 days that ended more than 60 young life in may 2021.

the powerful testimony of palestinian families in gaza. as they remember, the children killed during the is really bumming 3 years ago. 11 days in may. all i'll just say are the, the holding the powerful to account as we examine the us as role in the world on. oh geez era. there was a time to be direct creation of

a humanitarian crisis is a tactic we do not is it was the 1st week it was from us, particularly that was very upfront on out of the or the fan open fan and the north and it's moving its way south. so un official warns of the dies situation on folding in northern golf at walls, civilian struggle to find the i'm on the inside. this is out. is there a life from the also coming up is ready as strikes can at least 9 people in rough uh where 1000000 and the hall displays palestinians or sheltering.